Safi: I'm attracted to a lot of people, or when I do have an attraction to someone, it's a really strong pull, um, that I felt the need to, like, hurt a lot of people, honestly, in a different way than, like, necessarily, like, cheating, but, like, breaking up with people, like, kind of impulsively, because I had, like, an inkling of a feeling for someone else.

Fifi: I, like, could not not cheat. Feeling, like, so much shame and resentment around it, you know? Like, I may have came up with all the excuses under the sun for why I was entitled to cheat, but the truth was I was lying, and I couldn't find a way to be honest about what I wanted. You were a serial monogamous. I was a serial cheater. Is that a thing? Yeah. Im I.

Fernanda: Hi, guys. This is Fernanda. Um, welcome to Polycurious So I have a really special episode for you today. Mariah uh, the occasional host of this podcast, and I interviewed Safi and Fifi. They are a couple that has a, uh, YouTube channel in which they share their experience being poly, being queer, being a person of color, but they also talk about other topics such as jealousy and consent. Just note that this interview was done back in August 2020, so over six months from the time this episode is released. And a lot has changed since, I am sure, in their relationship. And also at the beginning, Safi says that his pronouns are either she, her, or he, him. But since he has come out as transgenders, so now he's exclusively using he, him. And you guys are inf for a TR because this interview was really a lot of fun, but we also talk about very deep stuff. Safi and PV really opened up about their upbringing and their relationship to polyamory. And we actually talked for such a long time, and everything was so good that I decided to split the interview in two parts. So today is part one. And you'll hear about their upbringing, which I don't want to spoil for you because it is s incredibly fascinating. And the next episode, you'll hear more about how they met, um, and their relationship and their YouTube channel. So here's the interview.

Fer: We are really excited because we have Fifi and Safi here with us. Um, they have an amazing YouTube channel that we've been, like, binge watching before.

Mariah: This and have learned so much already.

Fer: Yes, we have learned a lot from that, and we hope you guys learn a lot from them, too. If you guys, uh, want to start just introducing yourselves, what you do, how old you are, your sexual orientation, your gender, um, you know, like, your relationship.

M: All at once in one word.

S: I'm Safi I'm 26 years old. My, um, I guess gender identity are my pronouns. I'm transmasculine, so my pronouns are she, her, or he, him. I'm a property manager at a women's recovery house. So that's pretty cool, but very not related to the work that I do that brought me onto this podcast.

Fer: What's your sexual orientation?

S: Well, my sexual orientation, I was like, pan. A pansexual person. I'm typically attracted to anyone who is femm presenting. Um, so, yeah, that's what I'm drawn to. I think there's a word for it somewhere. Gen Z definitely came up with something for that.

F: Um, I'm Fifii. I'm 27. We're a few months apart. And I identify as pansexual. My pronouns are she, her. I, uh, work in project management, uh, during the day. But of course, I would prefer to get paid to create content, if that were my option. I'm also pansexual. I'm into all the genitals, all the people. I think, like, same. Yeah, as long as there's, like, sex appeal and draw, then I'm down. Um, connection.

M: All the good stuff, for sure. Yeah, I feel that.

F: Great. So you guys have an interesting background because you'both from New York. Um, but Fifi, you grew up in the Bronx, and Safi, you grew up in Betdyle. Fifi as a Latina woman and Safi as an African American woman. Um, so you actually had a very interesting YouTube channel about kind of the conflicting or, um, complex identities of being queer and also being a person of color and also being polyamorous. So it's just a lot to deal with. Um, so can you speak a little bit of that? I don't know. Who wants to start? Uh, first?

M: Uh, I actually have a quick question first. Um, so do you consider your relationship as polyamorous, or would you define it in a different way?

S: Oh, we're totally polyamorous.

F: Yeah Yeah, I think that's. There's no other way to name it. Yeah.

Fer: Awesome. Yeah. And just for people who might not have heard previous episodes, how would you define polyamorous?

S: I, uh, think, like, at the root of it's, like, many loves or, like, being able to. I think they. What happens is it gets confused with an open relationship and which are fine paradigms, but it is the ability, at least in our relationship, to explore sexual and romantic relationships outside of the relationship that we have. Um, and I think, yeah, we really practice it in that way.

F: Yeah. I think interestingly, as we've talked to more people who are curious about the subject and people who are familiar with non-monogamy and polyamory and paradigms that fall under those umbrellas, people who are turned off by polyamory are turned off only because it requires commitment and work. And it really is a, uh, multiple relationship situation. So sharing your calendar, like managing your time, communicating with everybody. And there's different ways to practice polyamory and how involved partners are with one another, but it certainly requires, uh, an emotional capacity that maybe not a just non-monogamous person might not have.

S: Right.

M: And that's so interesting, uh, to hear you say that too, because you're right. It's totally about time management. But at the same time, you were just saying how you work like crazy hours, like how do you also manage multiple relationships?

F: Right. Well, that's where kitchen table poly polyamory is how that works for us. So we learned about this recently ourselves, the different forms of practicing polyaory. And we were addressing this question about whether you would prefer parallallel polyamory. And that's in a, uh, paradigm where you have a partner, but your relationships with your additional partners don't ever cross.

S: Yeah. So it's like a parallel. Two parallel lines that never meet. Yeah.

Fer: Compared to kitchen table poly, which is exactly what it sounds like. It's a scenario where you can get together and all your partners can chill and hang out. And it's like a community oriented, a.

Fer: Bir they kitchen table.

M: Yeah, basically.

S: Yeah, it's cute. I like it a lot. Yeah.

F: So it's a lot more manageable for me to have that style of polyamory because like, just yesterday I spent my weekends with Safi, but we went to go see my other partner, Maya. So it's not like, go home, sorry, I'm going to go see my other partner. Like, no, you're coming. And we're going to have dinner together and we're going toa hang out and we're going toa chill. And um, because we're all friends. So that's actually what helps me manage it all, is that I can, I know that I can always bond with everyone at the same time.

S: Right

M: Are you guys all romantic then or you just are all friends so you guys can share time together, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have a romantic relationship.

S: Yeah, we're not romantic. I 'm mean, I'm not romantic with Maya or her, um, fiance, Peter, but, uh, we Have a bond. And, um, there are like, paradigms where you, like, the person needs to be involved. Like a more swinging paradigm or. Um. But it's just mostly on the basis of, like, we all love this one person and it's fun to hang out. You know, I like keeping it at that. Um, and I think sometimes, I don't know, it's just we're able to kind of like, Maya and Safi can be having like a moment or go out to do something together, and Peter and I can hang out. Um, because it's so natural for us. It's not awkward in any way where I feel like, oh, don't leave alone with Peter. Like, it's gonna be weird, you know, so.

F: Yeah.

S: Yeah. And that comes from building that relationship with them, um, and building rapport with, um, them through loving Safi

F: Yeah. Um, the slut. So I have all the partners, but it just so happens that that's what it is right now. I was actually dating Maya before I met sex_y so, um, that's a whole thing too. All just like, introducing metamorss to new partners and such. Ma already had her primary partner. The way we function, mostly we date each other, but we have our separate primary partners. So she found Peter and then I found Safi And thats kind of how we became what we are now. Yeah.

M: And you said metamour So for people who are curious about poly what is that? How would you define that?

F: Metamour is a partner of a.

S: My partner's partner.

Fer: Y um, so you mentioned that you are romantic with Maya, but, uh, for the rest, there's been some swinging situations, but it's not really their norm. It's been more, I assume, like at play parties or things like that, that you've been like, interacting sexually in that way or you've never actually, um. Like the four of you, uh.

F: Oh, yeah, we've had sex.

S: Yes, the four of us have had sex. And it's just not a requirement. But yeah, right.

F: Yeah, it's kind of. Especially because they're such familiar partners to both of us. It's kind of an anything goes situation. And I think it's out of just familiarity. Uh, perhaps if there was a play party situation and we go in there with the knowledge that its a play party, we might have sex and we establish boundaries and intentions and desires beforehand. Well discuss whether inviting a stranger or a new person that we meet that they is something that wed be interested in doing. And if we both are on the same page about that, then we might actually End up doing that. Um, but if it's not with someone that we know, we've talked about it beforehand.

S: Yeah. I grew up in Bedside Brooklyn, um, to a black American and a Caribbean household. Um, you know, like, it was a rough neighborhood. You like, have a rough family. So like being. I guess, like the first part, I feel like I should just drop the, uh. I. I grew up in a strip. I grew up in a cult. The first half of my life I was oay. I was like, oh, what are the words for this?

Fer: I was like, why is he gonna drop now? I'm confused. I thought everything had been dropped already.

S: It's one of. Yeah, all the things that's always the.

M: One that no one's expecting here in Bedsidey too.

S: Yeah. Yeaz. Um, it was a secret society, like that's what. Or a cult. Like, those are pretty similar things. And um. So the first half of my life I was a part of that with my grandparents who were these like Caribbean hippies. Um, and gender actually was a lot more fluid in my and my grandparents house with my aunts. And there were so many of us like living in one house that um, it just like, wasn't really a concern. Like there was no like gender roles or ways that we were supposed to act. Cause we were already doing so much weird shit that like, you know, there wasn't gonna be any, um.

Fer: What kind of thing, if you don't mind sharing.

S: We just did like different. So it was a Pan African cult. So we rejected any forms of like, westernized, um, religion. So like basically, I mean Catholicism or Christianity. And wen't that.

Fer: I'm sorry, but isn't that what you grew up with? So she was like, fuck you. Like, that's so interesting. That's what, uh, uh, Fifi grew up with a Latina. Like, I'm also Latin. And yeah, Catholicism is a big thing. And you were part of a cult that rejected that part.

F: Exactly, yes. Who knows what that dictated in our later lives. Maybe I would have come out more masculine or gender like flu in my presentation. I'm not sure. But hey, yeah.

S: Yeah, it rejectacked. And a lot of the ceremony there was just a lot of like, I was really young, so I didn't really realize. I was like, why am I wearing all whites? Um, who is this person smoking? Like a weird version. There's a lot of drugs growing up.

M: Even when you were younger.

S: Yeah, I wasn't doing drugs, uh, yet. But a lot of my family liked to do like they smoked weeird, which was Normalized. And they still do a lot, but, like, psychedelics, like, were a big part of it. And, um, it was funny, like, bringing up. My grandparents had a third partner that I did not realize. I was like, who's this lady kissing everyone on the mouth? Like, why did you hear all the time?

Fer: Did you see her as family?

S: I did see, like, when I first got introduced to her, I was like, huh, huh. That's weird. She came in and, like, packed everyone on the mouth, and it's just, like, interesting to me. And baby sappy. Just like, oh, this is not. And then she would be over, like, every other day. And I realized, like. And she passed a while back, but she was there, their girlfriend. And, um. And then it kind of changed when my stepdad came into the picture, who was very much black American Christian. Um, there's so much history about that man that made him who he was. And it really quickly changed where gender roles and gayness, queerness were not welcomed. Um, so it was, like, a really weird, chaotic journey for me to be at the place I'm at now because it was such a stark difference from this crazy, chaotic, fluid home to a very regimented lifestyle, especially around my gender presentation.

M: Yeah, it's like two different extremes that you're dealing with.

S: Yes. Yeah, for sure.

M: And how quick was that transition going from one lifestyle to the other?

S: Oh, it. It was like, literally, I woke up, and my mom, bless her heart, is a very strange woman as well. And, um, I was living with my grandparents, and my mother was like, this is my boyfriend. We're moving into his house now. And I was like, I don't want to do this, but okay. And I was 10. And, yeah, it was like, night and day. It was really like, my life is, like, totally different now, and the way I act has to be totally different. So. Yeah.

F: Did he, uh, dictate that for you? Did he have, uh, power?

S: Yes. Yeah, it was a big. It was like a. Um. My sister is also. She's a trans woman, so she was. She was born or assigned male at birth, but also was really fluid in her gender expression as a kid. And we moved into my stepdad's house, and it was very, like, I literally had, like, a schedule on how I dressed to make sure. Like, you're wearing skirt. Like, you're wearing a skirt on this day, you're wearing pink on this day. And my sister was the same way.

F: Bad version of mean girls.

S: It was really bad. Like, the clothes were really bad and tacky. Like, I was just like, you couldn't even like dress me well, just you just having me out here looking like this, you know. Um, and we also. It was split with chores, so I wasn't allowed to take out the garbage. I had to wash the dishes. My sister had to take out the garbage at the time. So really insidious, like I had to learn to cook. If my sister came into the kitchen, he would be like, why the fuck are you in the kitchen? Like that kind of.

Fer: Mhm.

S: Yeah, it was pretty wild. Yeah.

Fer: Feel should. So how did you go from m that to being come to terms with the fact that you didn't wanna dress like that and you weren't gonna conform.

S: I was lucky enough to get into LaGuardia, which is an art school uptown. And I started meeting more people who, um, not even then. I think there was still like a struggle. Like I didn't cut my hair until I was like 19. So I would say more. Actually. I went away to college and when you go to. Away to school, like my parents were gone. My mom kind of, I think she just got tired of enforcing the rule and like realized like, you are not gonna fucking change. Re. Like no matter what we put you in, you're still very much this masculine person. Um, and as I got into purchase, which was another drug hippie school, that reminded me a lot of my upbringing and I started joining clubs and it was really about community. Like the more I was around community, the more I could see myself. And the more I could see myself, the more comfortable I became with who I was. Um, and I heard stories like, maybe not the cult part, but like similar parents not really agreeing or liking, you know, the way their child turned out. Um, and it was like, yeah, really, community. That made it possible for me to be who I am, uh, now.

F: Right. Like realizing there's other people like you and that's okay, and getting validation from others.

F: Huge. Yeah, um, that's huge. That's a catalyst for any. I mean for me too, it was like finding with all my weird desires or curiosities. What made me feel less weird about it or less ashamed was just discovering other people who had shared those things with me too. Um, so I guess for me, I from. My parents are from Puerto Rico. So um, they had me and my sister and my mother is the Catholic. My dad is the, I guess the recovering Catholic. He very much rejected that. My dad was like, ah, an alcoholic. When they got married, he cleaned up after the fact. But um, my mom was the very like, we must get married. We can't move in it was like. She was like, he's like, let's move in together. She's like, not unless you marry me. And he's like, you know, sure, whatever.

M: Yeah, I have to.

F: And then they did that and then, um, they had me. Both my parents are educators and my mom, she's a very practical woman. She's a Tauruist. She was like, I'm gonna provide for my family and do what I have to do. And so a lot of that, of what is right and what is wrong came from my mother. My dad is very much like free for all. Don't go to school if you don't want to. Um, but he'kind of flaky, so he would be off doing his own thing. Um, he wasn't really into the whole married with kids situation. Love my sister and I very much, but tried to create as much distance as he could. So like I said, a lot of those morale came from my mother. And she. It's like so deeply ingrained to the point where like, it's so deep. Like when you can't think of God as a woman. Like if you can only think of like your higher power, the universe being controlled by a male centered thing. Like that's how um, deep all her conceptions are of how humans should operate. There's man and there's woman. And when I started to bring around all my androgynous friends or like my drag queen, right? Anyone that was fluid in any way, she was like, why don't they? And she met Safi and she was like, Safi showed her her driver's license in which she still has long hair.

S: Was crazy.

F: And I'm like. She's like, why did you cut it? And I'm like, mom, don't want ask that question. That's not so. It. When it came to me coming out as not straight, it was because I am comfortable in my femininity and in presenting feminine. Um, I don't know whether that has so much to do with the fact that I don't really know any other way. And I don't know if I am more comfortable presenting any other way. Uh, because it's just how I've been for so long that when I started to bring my um, andrognous girlfriends over and she, it became clear that these aren't just friends. I have something with these people. It was like to her, why would you choose this? And to her exactly. So like she thought, if I had known this whole time with you growing up that you were preferred the Same gender. Then I would be accepting of you. But it's like all of a sudden you were bringing this outnd of nowhere.

M: And to her I've had my whole life exactly.

F: Like God forbid anything changes, uh, moving forward in adulthood. Like I must um, yeah, just I think for her it really was about like safety and making sure that I didn't create any more hurdles for myself. I didn't marginalize myself any further. Like as already, ah, a low income Latina woman. Now you're fucking weird serious. Now you're going to put this other thing on top of the whole list.

Fer: But did it feel to you like it felt to her it was a new thing?

F: Oh totally. I like Safi described it all started with community. Like when I started to surround myself with just LGBTQ people and I started, you know, I had experiences since I was very young of wanting to kiss and be girlfriends with my best friends so so cute. And it's just like I love you so much. I. Right.

Fer: But then it wasn't a a new thing exactly you accepting it was new. But you had those previously as well as totally.

F: But that's a whole journey. I don't know if you guys can relate. Like I think especially uh, it was mind boggling because I always was supportive of people who aren't straight. Like anyone who doesn't fall under the binary. I thought like absolutely, like thank you for making it possible for other people to explore themselves. But when it came to me and me having to have this part of my identity that I would have to present to my family at some point, it was really scary. Um, because uh, it started to become real. Like those fears that my mother had, I'm like, will people be prejudiced towards me because of this then? But mostly like my biggest fear was presenting it to my family, I think for sure.

Fer: Yeah.

M: So I totally, that totally resonates with me too. And I think that, you know, once I met this community especially like three and a half years ago, like it's, it's all still very new to me. I feel like I'm always discovering something new with it. Um, but yeah, I totally, I totally feel you there. And like I felt like I was so in the closet before and I was just lying to myself a lot of the time. I'm just like, no, I'm, I'm totally straight. Like yeah, sometimes I like to make out with girls but that's just like something fun to do. And in reality like I was bi the whole time, but I just didn't want to, you know, share it with my family and kind of like, accept it for myself.

F: Um, yeah, actually, I think for me was different. And that's why I was asking you, was it something new for you? Because, you know, it's not like I had never felt attracted to a woman before, but it was only when I had the chance at play parties, um, or kind of like I was kind of offered that choice that I was like, oh, okay, I'll try it out. And that's when I was like, oh, is actually you. This is actually nice. I like it, you know, but it wasn't something that. Even though, as I said, I did feel some sort of, uh, attraction before, it wasn't something that I felt that I was, like, not open. And then I discovered. And that's why I still don't consider myself bisexual, even though I like women too, in certain scenarios. But it just was like. It just was like an optional thing, you know, like, if I can choose, I'll choose a man, you know, so that's why it just came like a new thing for me. Also the acceptance of it as well. You know, um, maybe before I did have those desires and I repressed them a little bit, but. But, yeah, well, no, totally. I think, like, sexuality is so fluid that I don't believe anyone of any gender isn't attracted to someone that they wouldn't, uh, expect. Like, everyone is by. I think, in a sexual scenario. When that started to become a reality and I started to have sex with women, like, make out with women. All of that, like, wasn't new for sure. I think it was my first homosexual relationship. That was scary because at that point it was, like, numb romantically. And not just romantically, like, emotionally involved. Like, we share space.

F: You meet my family, like Mariah was saying, it's not like, oh, you know, yeah, I make out with women. But, um, no, like, now I have a relationship with a woman. I cannot, uh, just say that. Oh, the other thing is just.

M: Well, because you also want them to be part of your life. And it's not like when you start to introduce someone in your life like that. It's almost wrong to kind of hide that because they deserve that same type of treatment as you would treat someone who happens to be a man.

F: Totally. And I feel like maybe our stories, at least for me, you know, we didn't sit down and have the sex talk at my house. Like, there wasn't a conversation, There wasn't a coming out thing. My parents don't need to know about that. They don'want. To. It's a little blasphemy in our house. And in fact, I think it's still that kind of, uh, we still have that arrangement where we don't really address, like, what I really do. They don't know I'm polyamorous. They don't know, like, they still don't refer to Safi as my girlfriend or as my partner, even though we've been dating for two and a half years.

Fer: Right. But you have never told them, this is my girlfriend, this is my partner.

F: They know.

Fer: They know. But you have never talk?

F: No, it's like, something that we don't address explicitly. And that's why having the YouTube channel and coming out and being so public with everything, I think for me, it started kind of jumping all over the place. So. Forgive me, but, like, when I started burlesque dancing about, I guess, two years ago now, it feels like that was the first also. I'm 27 years old, and I'm like, okay, I can do whatever the fuck I want with my life. If I want to show my pussy on the Internet, like, I can do that at this point. Like, it's OK. I'm past 18 years old. So when I started to perform.

Fer: Well, past.

F: Yeah, exactly. So when I started to, like, show my ts on stage was like, okay, it's all good to go now.

Fer: Oh, that's awesome. You did burlesque dancing. How did you get into that? Have you always danced or.

F: I danced growing up. I did, uh, like, some belly dancing years ago, and then I just love dancing. So my friends who like to party with me and know that I love dancing were like, hey, they're having auditions. Um, this, like, LGBTQ burlesque True. You should try out. And I wasn't employed at the time I was able to make the audition. So I was like, you know what? This could be something fun that I do on the side. And I got the gig and it just started from there. So Barry Novice, like, had never performed her less before, and that's how she.

S: Was outed to her entire family.

F: Oh, yeah Oh, I forgot about that. That's how they found out. So I'I didn't have my account private because.

Fer: Your Instagram account?

F: My Instagram, um, account, yes. And that's where I posted all of my pictures from performances and, you know, pride flag everywhere, like, photos of Safi and I, like, naked on a bed. Like, there was just a lot of. It wasn't, like, very PG content. And my cousin who followed me. And then my aunt found me through suggested friends and like, n everything. The word got out and, um, so I got just like a paniced text from my cousin. She's like, Safi My real name is Safi by the way, but I go by Fifi. And she's like, Safi uh, noang and the. With my dad and so you better talk to your mom. They said she was a stripper.

F: Yeah, she was like, well, yeah. Oh God. I was say so everybody's saying you're a stripper. So I don't know what youn toa do with that info, but just so you know. So I had to tell my mom. I'm like, mom, before anybody else tell.

S: Yeah, I got to it.

Fer: Oh, wow. How was that conversation?

F: It was awful. She was like, you showed parts of yourself that I never even dreamed of looking at in my.

Fer: And did she go into your Instagram?

F: Oh, she looked. She loves. She's a snooper. She loves to like to. I think it's a latina thing. I think it's like, you know, you're not gonna like what you're gonna find. So why are you looking?

M: So hopefully she doesn't find your YouTube channel.

F: Who knows at this point, I feel like after that, the cats'out of the bag.

S: Like they saw you like half naked on the Internet.

F: Yeah, they've seen it all at this point. Also, I'm an adult. That's the other thing that it's hard to get past. It's like, mom.

M: Yeah.

F: She's like, am. Mom's gonna be your mom. Whatever. But it's.

Fer: Oh, well, at least she said that

F: Um, yeah.

Fer: You know, it wasn't like, you're not coming into the house.

S: Yeah. They didn't disown you, which is cool.

F: I think the fact that I do have. I am employed at ah. Like a, you know, vanilla job helps with that. That helps. Like that is my backup. I'm like, look, I pay my own bills.

Fer: Did you stop doing burlesque because of that?

F: No, I. I would still be doing burlesque if not for Covid.

Fer: Oh, okay. That's awesome.

F: Um, yes.

Fer: Nice. Let us know about your next performance.

M: So wait, you work a full time? You have burlesque show, you got a YouTube channel, you got multiple relationships. You're just doing it all.

Fer: It's a lot. In terms of, um, coming out as poly. Was that or that's not even a conversation you have had. So it was more like queer. That already is like, that's already coming out and we don't wanna know about the details of that. And that might include being poly or have you had a conversation about being poly with your family?

S: So with my family it's a little different. My family's a lot less, um, involved in my life than Sophia's family is or Fifi's family is with hers. So I can literally say anything to my mother in passing and it's like, anyways, you. But my mom is also really like, she's an Aquarius. So she's very. Can grasp concepts that are foreign to her without being deterred from it. And she made like a really interesting point. We were talking about like polyamory and more of a theoretical way and less in practice. And she was like, it kind of makes sense in terms of like the way the world is now. You kind of can't just have like one partner, a house and a dog. Like millennials should be polorous forward looking. Yeah. You guys should be like, community building. Like some person can pay this and some person. So it's kind of cool to hear her perspective on it. And she's a nurse, so she sees a lot like, of culture shifts, um, because of her field of work. And yeah, she like. But we don't explicitly talk about anything. It just kind of like in passing, like, this is what's happening in my life. She's like, cool. Like, I made dinner and just kind of like, sometimes I feel like talking about it with you, sometimes I don't. So it's really interesting. Yeah.

M: My mom had a similar reaction when I first told her that I was poly and going out on a date with a girl. And she was like, okay, that's enough information for now. Let's pick this up another time.

S: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's very much like pinning it. All right, we'll talk about the. Yeah.

Fer: Whereas our Latina moms are like, I wanna know more.

F: Yeah

Fer: And they get mad every time. Tell me all the details. Like the things that my mom. Mom ask me. I'm like, oh my God, Mom. And she goes into like everyone's Facebook and like looks them up.

F: That's shit. I don't get it. I mean, I guess it's just culture. Does your mom. Do you identify as polyamorous?

Fer: I guess yes. But I'm not in a polyamorous relationship. I'm in an open relationship. Um, so my boyfriend is monogamous, but he is fine with me having sex with other people or going on dates with other people. And it depends on the situation. But, um, you know, it's been a few months of Covid so we haven't really explored that much that aspect during this time because I don't have any other. Other partners.

F: Right. Does your mom know that you're doing that?

Fer: Well, uh, my mom knows that I'm interested and knows that uh, Seth, my partner has given me some liberties or however you wanna say it. But uh, every time I tell her she's like, you know, she's like, she's like mommy, don't do that. You know, she doesn't. You know it's funny because I see her trying to be accepting. Uh, she's always been. I mean I can only say good things about her. She's very open. She's also Cuban. Well, I think you're Puerto Rican, right? Um, yeah, but you know like a lot more open minded in terms of sex uh, than uh, Mexican people. I'm half Cuban, half Mexican, so she's Cuban. Um, and she's always been super accepting about everything. So I can see how she struggles, uh, wanting to pretend she's accepting or like being accepting but at the same time thinking that it's not the right choice. Ah, she thinks, I think especially because Seth is not open that's gonna um, harm my relationship in some way. You know, I feel like it's a common conception like oh, uh, that doesn't really last. That's a phase or that s you that doesn't work, you'll settle down. So like yeah, yeeah, yeah, go and explore a little bit. But so because I get that response from her, I don't really share as much as I would share in other things because we talk about everything but I just don't wa wantn hear that. Uh, you know like so that's why. But it's not like I keep it away from her. Uh, she knows that I like it. Ah, what I haven't told her though, it's uh, play parties that I've been going to play part.

S: Oh, I haven't told my mom that either. I just don't know if she needs to know.

Fer: I mean even I had a prejudice before going so that's. And that's why that's one of the things that I'm not so um, comfortable sharing because I'm like if they think what I thought then you know, I don't want them to know.

M: Of course I told my mom pretty much right away.

S: How was that?

M: It was definitely like a pin in it moment so we had to pick it up like a Week later. But like, once I actually told her, she was like, that's interesting. You know, And I think that even just the whole idea of polyamory and like the uh, ability to have multiple partners and like, I mean, she's been married for so long, she's like, yeah, I mean, I could see how you can kind of get maybe bored and. Or just need to switch it up every once in a while, have a little bit of variety so that you still have. So she came from a very good place of like, oh, I'm kind of interested in that. And I was like, mom, you can't come. I'm sorry.

F: Oh my gosh.

M: She totally could. Maybe not with you. I would be a little awkward, but. Sorry to out you, mom.

Fer: When did you guys. I mean, we've kind of touched on that, but when did you guys, uh, become interested in polyamory? Did it come kind of like parallel with coming to terms with being queer? Or was it something that happened afterwards?

S: I. So I've been or practicing non-monogamy not necessarily polyamour since I was like 20. Um, but it was in a dynamic that I did not like, which was a Don't Ask Don't Tell dynamic. Um, it's not for me, I feel. Yeah, it's a little bit. But the way it got. And it was kind of born out of a place that wasn't that healthy or great either, where, um, basically like, uh, my partner at the time and I were going through something and she was like, I can't do this. Like this. I need to be in an open relationship or I'm gonna cheat on you. And I was like, you could have just said like, I need to be in an open.

F: Yeah, we didn't need to know the second part.

S: Yeah, yeah, it was weird and like, it was just a lot. The relationship itself wasn't. God bless her too. I, um, hope she's happy. But it wasn't the. The best way for it to kind of be presented. So we were, ah, no monogamous. We were in an open relationship with this kind of weird paradigm. And before then I had. I was like, very prone to like serial monogamy where I would get with someone, I would be interested in someone else, and then I would break up with them so I could basically just have sex with the other person. I didn't even want to be in a relationship necessarily. But, um, because of this constant, like, I'm attracted to a lot of people or when I do have an attraction to someone, it's a really strong pull, um, that I felt the need to, like, hurt a lot of people, honestly, in a different way than, like, necessarily cheating, but, like, breaking up with people, like, kind of impulsively, because I had, like, an inkling of a feeling for someone else. I was 18, so I wasn't, like, like, experience in any way, uh, in terms of, like, emotional maturity and, like, the ability to, you know, consider other people. But, um, I broke up with her because I was so attracted to this other person, and it, like, drove me, like, insane. And I started, like, dating this other person in a very casual way. And we stayed casual for the duration that we were seeing each other, and we were able to have other partners and, like, laugh and talk about it. And I was like, I want this, but less of what happened before it, I guess.

F: You were a serial monogamous. I was a serial cheater. Is that a thing? Yeah So I, like, could not not cheat. Like, it was just. I couldn't. Well, I'm a slut. Like, I just to have sex when I want to have sex. And that, uh, was a huge. So many parts of that was, like, feminism. I was like, you can't control me. You can't tell me what to do. Like, my pussy isn't yours. You can't, like, lock it down. Right. So you justify your cheating. Oh, okay. With all of that stuff. Um, exactly. Thank you for clarifying. Thank you for clarifying. That's exactly what I was doing. No, drag me. Drag me, please.

Fer: Well, for anyone out there listening who might be in that situation, you know, because I feel like a lot of people are like that. They just, you know, they just continue to cheat, and they don't even know that there's the option of doing it in an ethical way. So, again, when you just said you're a slut, there's also, uh, a very informative YouTube video where you explain how you stop feeling ashamed of it when you realize you could do it in an ethical way. So now, you know, like, your partner is aware of it. So it's not cheating, but you are re still doing what you want. You can still claim your feminist power. Totally.

S: And you can have your cake and eat it too.

Fer: Yes, that's a good word Yes, it's possible. It is. Yes, it's possible.

M: And very yummy.

F: Yeah, I had like it. It really is. Seeing where I am now compared to where I was then and feeling, like, so much shame and resentment around it, I may have came up with all the excuses under the sun for why I was entitled to cheat. Um, but the truth was I was lying. And I couldnt find a way to be honest about what I wanted because I had so much shame around it because I had no point of reference. Like there was all the examples I had in my life were monogamous relationships. That's all you see on TV and movies. There's barely any representation of polyamory or non-monogamous relationships. So I had no idea it was possible until I met someone that was not practicing ethically but called themselves a polyamorous person. And where you made this person this was. So I luckily started to surround myself with sex positive people or with friends that were just laty like me. And we had a lot of my femme co. I don't even know how to describe these relationships. Like my femme friends that I kind of share partners with. Like we engage in group sex sometimes but we don't necessarily have sex together. But we had this like past the baton situation with men. So we yeah.

M: She like my best reaction.

F: Yeah.

Fer: Because I was like what you and you don't have sex together but you do have sex together?

F: We have sex together if there's a person that we're sharing.

S: Right.

F: Right

Fer: I totally understand that. It's like I tried this. You try it now? Yeah, like he's a good one.

S: Exactly.

Fer: He's a good one. Let me share.

M: Uh, you actually done that've done that.

Fer: We've done that. I've pass some good ones to Mariah

F: Thank you. But it'it's. I love that too. Because that's. I love what that means because it's um, it's a feminine friendship that is so contrary to what we see also so often represented in the media where like, like you know, ex boyfriends are off limits or you know, like you can't like my man that's completely off. You know, you can't do that. Like friend canceled.

S: And here I also think that like men do that all the time.

F: Right. Again, uh, thinking HM about being a slut.

F: Right?

F: You like men are not slut know they're in the game.

S: Y. Yeah, like men do that all the time with women or femmes where they're just like huh, like have that or like you know, this like mental. I don't know, I've never been a part of that. But like um. And I think there's something so like empowering about women doing the same demand just being like, all right, I ve had my fun with him M and.

M: They're okay with it. Right?

F: For at least, like, ones that we pass around. Right. I don't know. But that's how we started off. And so this one guy that she passed off to me was calling himself polyamorous. And, um, I was like, oh, this is great. Like, you're fucking other people. I'm fucking other people. No one's getting jealous. Not. It was a situation where we weren't talking about who we were having sex with, but it got sticky when, you know, I think this is when I learned that I wanted to know if my partner was having sex with other people in general. When he was like, hey, you should get tested. And I was like, u, uh, fuck. Like, damn. I guess we should have definitely had this conversation. Are you having sex with other people?

S: Are you having unprotected sex?

F: Are you having unprotected sex with other people? Um, so the safety component came into play after that, and I was like, you suck at what you're saying you're doing. So then I took a break from that. But I knew that I really enjoyed that. I really enjoyed just having the liberty to explore. Uh, luckily I, uh, wasn't infected with anything that time. But it did suck to have that information told to me in that way. So I was like, okay, that's probably not how I want to practice moving forward. Um, then came I started dating someone who was very monogamous. And I tried to come out as polyamorous to her, and she was like, absolutely not. So, um, the story goes, I cheated on her with a casual partner that I had for a long time. And, um, I was on birth control at the time. And she and I broke up. And a few weeks passed and I was feeling like, super ashamed and guilty about how that went down. And I ended up being pregnant. And I was like, holy shit. I don't recommend the copyright from my.

M: Would not so many people I know.

F: I've gotten pregnant on the copper iud, so I don't know what's good with that. I away from it folks, but I think it only it has a very limited lifetime. So I had it for a while and that happened. And it was another situation where I fully pro choice support anyone who ever decides to get an abortion. Never thought it would be me. And so there was just like, I. Uh, A lot of stigma around that in the Catholic, Latina, uh, Latino community. Um, and there was like, I can't discuss this with the person I feel closest to because we just broke up and it was really messy and ugly, and I can't discuss this with the guy because he'in a different state, doesn't even know what happened. And I was so lucky to have my sister and my best friend there. Um, I had the abortion. And after that I took some time off dating and just romance to make the really stern decision for myself to do something different. I was like, this came about out of a lie. That was what happened. I wanted to be open and instead I cheated. And so now I'm alone in this process. I don't want this to ever happen again. I'mnna really seriously look into what practicing polyamory looks like. So I went looking and they happened. The world happened to cross between polyamory and bdsm. So I found myself in a kinky party. I met members from the Hesian novella. I, uh, started doing work with them, started helping to produce events there. And then I just got enmeshed in the community and I haven't looked back since.

Fer: Well, I don't know about you guys, but as you could probably hear by how much I lauged, I really enjoyed the interview. I felt like we were just friends hanging out, even though I had just met them. I am super grateful to Safi and Fifi for being so open and so vulnerable with us. It was so inspiring to learn from their individual journey and how they both managed in their own way to come to terms with who they are and how they want to deal with their sexuality and their relationship. I also find it super interesting that they're now using their YouTube channel to inform people about their reality. I just kept thinking ut throughout that they are now being the person that they wish they had when they were growing up and trying to figure out what they wanted. Please go and check out their YouTube channel which is linked in the show notes. And please don't forget to listen to the next episode where we actually learn about how Safi and Fifi met and they get really personal and share some of their struggles and advice for other couples. Remember to share the episode if you think that someone will enjoy it or find it helpful and write to us on Instagram Polycurious Podcast uh, our mail polycuriouspodcast@gmail.com so thank you so much for listening guys and I'll see you all soon.