Anna: There's no right way to have a non-monogamous relationship. It's a learning experience. And what's gonna happen if someone wants to explore non monogamy and is willing to, like, put in the work is that they're going to learn a lot about themselves, a lot about their partner, and a lot about love and friendship and relationships and heartbreak. And it's a full spectrum of emotions.

Fernanda: Hi, guys. So today I'm chatting with Anna and Chetan. They are friends I met in the poly community a while back and they have been together for about four years. But individually, they have both been polyamorous for almost 15 years. So as you can imagine, they've learned a lot. And in this conversation, they both share some of those lessons. We talk about their past relationships, including a triad they had for a little while. And they give a lot of tips for poly people, especially when it comes to dealing with jealousy, which is something that I know a lot of you are interested in. And I think overall this episode shows how the non monogamous journey can be hard. But even when things don't go your way or you make mistakes, you actually learned a lot about yourself in that process. Just note that this is the only interview so far that I have done over Zoom because this friends actually moved out of New York a while back. So this episode is a little less conversational than usual. But I still really loved it because of all the wisdom that they shared with us. So I really hope that you also learned from their wisdom.

Now here's my interview with Anna and Chetan. So, hi guys. Thank you so much for coming to Polycurious I'm so excited to have you. I'm, um, looking forward to catch up and learn more about their relationships. So, uh, if you guys want to just start giving like an introduction for the listeners.

A: Sure. Thank you so much for having us. For my name is Anna I am 34 years old and I am, uh, in the medical profession.

Chetan: And I am Chetan I am 31 and I am self employed in the, uh, real estate industry.

F: Awesome. So tell us guys, what kind of, uh, relationship you have. I know you guys are non-monogamous but how do you describe your relationship to other people?

C: Yeah, we identify as polyamorous

A: Yeah. So, uh, when we met, we, uh, were introduced to each other by, um, this little known app called Tinder. We met each other identifying as poly, um, individually. Even though I currently only have one partner, I still identify as poly. And, um, I think that that's kind of like an important point in non-monogamy is that regardless of what your partner situation is, you can identify as poly. Even if you have one partner or even if you have no partners, you can still identify as polyamorous.

F: Right. Because people have this idea of, um, open or poly relationships as being super active, you know, and sometimes it's like periods of a lot of activity and then people take a break. You step out for a while.

A: Yeah. I think there are times where individuals have less emotional or mental or physical capacity for multiple relationships. Um, and sometimes they have more. That's one of the hard things about poly for me is staying in tune with what my needs are from myself and not giving everything away to partners and friends and, you know, friends that are also lovers. And, you know, it's important for me to really take, like, an honest inventory of the external factors in my life to make sure that I'm saving some of that for myself.

F: Right. Because energy really is a factor. I've heard a lot of people say that they could probably do an open relationship, but, uh, poly relationship just takes too much time and energy. Um, and I mean, I can identify myself even though I'm in an open relationship. I've never had two partners. So I can imagine that it's just like, you know, if already maintaining one relationship takes time and energy, maintaining multiple ones probably does as well.

A: Yeah. I've had relationships that have been on the path into developing into, like, long term established relationships. And, um, I've had to have, like, very frank and honest and painful, uh, conversations about what I'm able to give and what I'm not. And, you know, that's painful for, you know, my partners to hear. But it's painful for me to say because when I care about somebody, I want to be able to show up and I want to be able to have a commitment with them. I think it's the ethical thing to do to say, like, hey, I don't have what you're looking for. But they're completely valid for wanting more time. Like, that's a valid thing. They have needs that are valid. Right. You know, at times I have limitations that are also valid. It's not a, like, right or wrong or if you just did this or if you just did that. Right. Um, a need is a need and a limitation, and a boundary is a limitation or a boundary. And all of those are valid.

F: Yeah, definitely. Um, I totally feel you when you say that. You know, it's painful for you when people kind of expect something and you in a way, let them down. I feel the same way. And I think that also applies to any relationship. Not just open or poly relationships. But yeah, I mean, everyone has different needs. And I think that part of it is just saying what you need and sometimes it's not what the other person wants. And then, then you have to make a choice on whether you are able to give up or break off their relationship. But sounds like you got it controlled now. I mean, you've come a long way.

A: Yeah.

F: Yeah. Uh, well, let's, uh, backtrack a little bit. Um, how did you guys become interested in non- monogamy? When was the first time that, uh, you kind of realized that was a thing and that was a thing that you might want to try out?

C: Um, my first non-monogamous relationship was, um, with somebody who I had started dating in college. And from the get go, uh, we had decided to not be, uh, monogamous at that time. It was, we weren't using the word polyw, we using the word open. And it, it, you know, we both kind of stumbled and got back up together a bunch of different times and just like, uh, you know, very slowly opening up and being more and more comfortable. We were together for almost nine years or something like that. It's just a slow, slow evolution, uh, over time.

F: How was that experience, like nine years in this open relationship? Did you have issues because of that? Was there any jealousy? Because you were also very young when you started, and I feel like, at least for me, when I was that age, it was really hard for me.

F: To deal with jealousy.

F: And I wasn't even, in an open relationship.

C: There were times that there was jealousy. There is also plenty of times that there was joy. I don't feel like I carry a lot of baggage from that relationship, but I would never say that I'm unaffected by it because Ann and I couldn't be together if I hadn't learned the lessons that I learned in that relationship and the mistakes that I'd made in that relationship. And, had I not had all that time with my ex, I wouldn't have learned those.

A: Non-monogamy for me was, like, pretty normal when I, like, first started dating in high school. I mean, my, like, group of friends and I, we were friends who also slept with each other and had sex with each other. And you know, at any given time we were exploring sexuality together and there wasn't really like a sense of ownership over anyone. And I kind of threw out that period. Never really, like, felt like monogamy was like a thing that I wanted and I was in a relationship with someone and we ended up getting married. And that relationship lasted about nine years.

F: Oh, wow. You also had a nine year relationship.

A: The end of our marriage was not based on our like issues with non-monogamy, that was like a part of it. But there were a lot of things in that relationship that were difficult for both of us. And my divorce was like very. It was in a very like weird time in my life because I was also like caring for my terminally ill mother. And so I feel like I didn't really like process the end of that relationship until after my mother passed away. And so then I was like processing a bunch of stuff at the same time. And it was like pretty messy. But I think that I like learned and grew and I was able to really like, before I entered into another serious relationship, I stayed single for a little over a year. I mean, I had sexual partners, but I made it absolutely clear that I was like not available for anything else. Like, I wasn't even available to like be friends with the people that I was like sleeping with. And I took the time to like really consider what I wanted in a partner. And I value that time that I took to write about it a lot and to read a lot and to meet a bunch of different people and really like nail down what it was that I wanted. And actually my therapist had me like make a list of traits that were important to me. A few like, key things were someone who had strong relationships outside of my relationship with them, someone who's independent and not like getting all of their needs met from the relationship. I wanted someone who was like, really excited to explore life. And it's important to me to have a partner who is looking out for like the greater good of other humans and recognizing like their strengths and limitations and different aspects of their character. You know, I didn't need anyone to like check all the boxes, but I felt like the majority of the boxes were very important. You know, if someone could hit 75% of those boxes, then I would like consider having a romantic relationship with them. And so by the time that I met Chetan I was actually again, just like not looking for a romantic partner. And so we had like this like standing like sex appointment on Friday afternoons and we'd really only communicate during the week to make sure that we were both like, still available for that upcoming Friday. Then like, I don't know, feelings just started to develop and we, I mean, I think that we like then transitioned to like friends who were also hooking up and Then we transitioned into romantic partners.

F: And, did Jayton check the boxes, the list that you had written with the other therapist?

A: Yeah, he did. I actually.

C: I didn't know that.

A: Oh, please.

F: So then you guys, met, and then it just, like, started becoming a little bit more than sex and then eventually turned into a relationship. And then Chetan introduced you to J, the woman you had a triad with at some point.

C: Yeah, that was actually the person who I had started seeing. And once they met Anna I, mean, Anna'pretty much the easiest person to fall in love with, at least from me. I mean, she always argues with me when I say that'she's the best. And I point out that she might not be the best in her mind, but she's the best for me. So they met Anna and we three developed in our own way, at that time, you know, and I had other relationships and our ex had other relationship and Anna had another relationship, was relatively amorphous period of time.

F: And how did you meet J?

C: They had met a friend of mine, and I was then introduced to them on Facebook as like, ah, oh, here's another poly person who you should talk to who might be able to help you in your situation or you help them or whatever. And so we kind of kept chatting. And, then that year we had a first date at Burning Man. And then our second date, I'd flown, over to see her, and, and we kind of, you know, began from there.

F: Right. But then how did Anna meet her?

A: J came to New York shortly after Chetan flew out to see her. We h a, like, really great weekend. And with J, I wasn't, like, looking to, like, form a triad or add another romantic partner. It just, like, organically happened. You know, the thing about triads, right, is that there's like, four relationships there, right? Three individual relationships, and then there is one relationship with, with the three. And they all have to work. And they all have to work. And it's, I don't know how that works long term. I know that it does work long term, but it hasn't for me. You know, what happened in this triad was Chetan and Jay's relationship kind of started to fall apart a little bit quickly. And I felt, like, very caught in the middle of that. And I didn'tnna be in the middle of it, but I was. And, like, I wasn't fighting with either of them. they were having their difficulties, and I did my best to support them through it. And J and Chayan's relationship ended and then mine and J's end did. But I don't think that any of us like, harbor ill will or you know, negative feelings about it. It just kind of was what it was and it ended. And they were all lessons, to be learned there.

C: Absolutely.

A: I feel like this may be like a very negative view of relationships. I don't know. But like all relationships end. Right. And most relationships in due to a breakup. And I think that one thing that I've learned through being polymorous and having multiple relationships in general is that breakups just happen and they're hard and I don't want to like minimize that. But they also like lead to a lot of growth if you let it. And there are more lessons to be learned in pain even if the relationship survives. Right. Like, I feel like I learn a lot through pain and I'm very grateful and happy for like the good times and the smooth sailings and relationships. But those don't tend to come with like a whole lot of like growth as a person. As do the hard times.

F: Yeah, definitely. I mean, as Jayton said before, like, if you hadn't been in that long 10 year relationship, you're go wouldn't be as good of a partner as you are now to Anna and same with the relationship you guys had with J. But what things do you think that you learned from it? because you mentioned there's like four relationships and was it about that just like too much to handle?

A: You know, it wasn't too much to handle when it was really like good and fun for me. I think that I, what I learned is that when things started to be really difficult between Chetan and J, like I honestly think that I just like inserted myself too much. I think that I wanted to be there and support both of them, but I was just like drained constantly and trying to do that. And I also don't know that like being in a triad that like I'm the person that either parties need to go to for support because I don't have like an unbiased view and because I'm literally in it. And I think that that's you. That was like kind of my big takeaway is that I maybe should have tried to be like less involved in what was going on between the two of them because it was hard for me to do that. And I also don't really think that it was like super helpful.

F: Right. And I think you guys live together at some point, right?

A: Yeah. So we had like a brief period where we live together. But we actually only like stayed together in that apartment for like one weekend maybe. She was not living in New York, she was living elsewhere. And we all decided together that we were going to get an apartment in New York. She was not going to, like, live in New York full time, because she had her business in the city that she lived. And we. Did you, like, look for an apartment together and decide in an apartment together. But then that really never like, transpired because the triad dissolved, you know, a couple months after that. And then, I don't know. Chetan and I stay together and we.

C: Spent a lot of nights staring at each other's faces and smiling uncontrollably.

A: We do do that a lot. We think it's important to like lay and stare at each other and smile and listen to music and not listen to music and just stare and smile. That we like doing that, you know. And since that triad, we've had mostly really, really great times and really fun adventures and we've done a lot of things. And I feel like we've packed a decade of living into the past 3ish years. But we've also had like really difficult times and hard conversations and hard weeks and monogamous relationships. And non-monogamous relationships have times that are just a lot of work and they have times that are painful. And I would love to just say that, like, all we do is have fun. But you know, to be quite honest, it's not just fun all the time. We're renovating a house right now and we've spent the past 24 hours dealing with like raw sewage in our basement. And let me tell you, it's not been fun.

C: Hey, but we have a lot of fun.

A: But we do have a lot of fun.

C: A lot of fun. We do lot.

A: We do have a lot of fun. In, like poly communities, there are good poly girlfriend or good poly boyfriend stereotypes. And the thing is, is you can be a good partner and be jealous. You can be a good partner and be insecure. Those don't, like, you know, counteract each other. What's important is for me, when I'm feeling jealousy or insecurity, that I first like, take a step back and identify why I'm feeling it. And oftentimes for me, it's like this fear that I'm going to be replaced. And what makes me a good partner in times that I'm experiencing jealousy and insecurity is not relying on Chetan to change his behavior to like quell my negative feelings and I'm saying this because I'm in a, relationship where I love this person, and I trust that this person loves me, and I trust that this person is not trying to hurt me. And there are times that people are in relationships, and if their partner is, like, intentionally causing harm, then that's something to look at. But for myself, it's not fair for me to ask him to change his behavior, to then change the way that I feel. Right. That's not fair. And it's also, like, not effective. Ends up making me just feel worse. And so what makes me a good partner in times of, like, jealousy and insecurity is that I'm just, like, willing to, like, do the work on myself. And I can talk about it when I feel like I need to, but I don't always need to. Like, I don't always have to bring it up, because if I can just try to, like, get a handle on it within myself, oftentimes I can, like, stop those negative feelings, and I can start to feel joy. For Chetan know, having an experience with somebody else.

C: Yeah, you do the work.

F: Yeah. That's awesome. I feel like that's also something that I'm learning because I come from a family that kind of says it all and is always, like, expressing their feelings as they happen. And I've just learned to be like, okay, this is how I'm feeling, but I don't need to share it right now. I don't need to have a conversation about it necessarily. I'm gonna give it some time. You know, I'm gonna take a shower or sleep on it and come back to it next day. And then I feel like I need to bring it up, then I will. But sometimes it's just about just taking a moment.

A: Yeah, absolutely.

F: So I just have a couple more questions. Anna you were talking about how sometimes you fear that you might be replaced, and then you have to work through those feelings. I feel like that's one of the biggest difficulties about it because in a way, I feel like people fear that if they open up their relationship, they're gonna lose their partner. And it does happen. So how do you deal with that feeling?

A: So most of the time, the onus of that is on me. And it's usually in times where I'm just not feeling, like, super great about myself. And, if I can, like, do the work, and of course, like, I ask for reassurance, and it's okay to do that in a relationship to, like, ask for reassurance, it's also Important for me to like do work on myself to make sure that like I'm in the best place that I can be with myself. And sometimes that is like learning something new or reading a new book, taking time to like do the things that I like to do, taking the time to create, you know, like all those things that I know make me feel good, that build up my self worth and my self confidence. It's also like, and I'm not trying to like be harsh or sound harsh when I say this, but I've like been through breakups and I've been through like long term relationship breakups and there have been times that that has caused me like heartbreak that I wasn't sure that I was going toa be able to push through and I was able to do that. So like, I know I have it in me to recover. Right. And I have to like remind myself that I am resilient. And I don't know if that's like the healthiest way to think about it, but that is something that is helpful for me to just know my own ability to navigate heartbreak.

F: I do think it's pretty helpful, yeah. To think about it in that way. Those are great tips. Jayan, if you wanted to comment on what Anna was saying, like what do you do when you experience that?

C: it was really difficult for me, to express that I am feeling insecurity and need reassurance for quite some time. but I got better at it I'd say. And one thing that Ann and I are both quite good at is expressing our needs for feeling reassured. and, or I used to. Not necessarily. I don't even think I thought it. I probably would have told you this isn't the case, but I think innately had a feeling of if I express my insecurity that's going toa drive the person away or make me less appealing to them. And Anna has had to help me understand that that's not going to be the case here. And she still sometimes needs to remind me of that. And you know, so, so that's the first thing I do is I ask for the reassurance that I need when I need it. But what I almost always like kind of come back to is how do I be the best teammate I can. It really helps to remind yourself that this is a person that you love. Hopefully they're not doing things intentionally to hurt you. They're just trying to like follow, you know, with their head and their heart or telling them and it's a lot easier to say, okay, like, I'm excited that you're excited. And we've just always done a good job, I think, of communicating and talking about, okay, what's the situation with this person? Where do you think it's going? Like, kind of come to a place, it's like, okay, this is a little scary, but you're telling me that this is what your intention is. There is s fear, but you have to, you learn to sit with it, you know, to recognize over time, the richness that other people that your partner partners with or has seen or is seeing improves the quality of your relationship too, and improves the quality of your life because they bring their own richness to your life if you're willing to let them. If your partner picks good people to put in their lives, which ideally good people know good people, then this new person is highly vetted new friend for you.

F: Yeah, that's a good insight. I, guess I'd just like to end with the question, what would you tell to a polycurious person?

A: I guess, like, my kind of thoughts is that there's no right way to have a non-monogamous relationship that's like, across the board, just work for everybody. There are wrong ways to do it, but there's no just like, right way. And it's a learning experience. And what's going to happen, if someone wants to explore non-monogamy and is willing to put in the work is that they're going to learn a lot about themselves and a lot about their partner and a lot about love and friendship and relationships and heartbreak. And it's a full spectrum of emotions. And one thing that's important for me to remember to you is that like, negative feelings don't last. Positive feelings don't last either. Right. Like, it's always changing, it's in flux. And there's no, like, emotional state that I'm in that just like, continues and open and honest communication is just very important. Discussing, you know, irritations and frustrations is important so that doesn't lead to resentment. And, oh, one thing that I think is like, important and it's been like an important lesson for me is that I can still be excited for my partner to experience something with somebody and not necessarily like, what they're doing. Like, you know, there have been times that I've had partners who've gone on dates or, you know, had sex with someone that I don't like, particularly care for, and that's okay. Like, it's not a requirement for me to like, like the person that might partners on a date with. It's great when that happens, but it's not a requirement. And just because I don't like the person or like this situation doesn't mean that I can't feel excitement for them. Right? That I can't feel excitement for their excitement.

F: Yeah, I feel like that can probably be hard, but, yeah, it's about kind of respecting the other person and respecting their happiness and being happy for them. As you guys very well mentioned.

C: I mean, I just would like to add a tad and just point out that love and relationships are a wild adventure, more of an adventure than damn near anything I can think of. And, polyamory kind of in a certain way puts that in hyperdrive. And it's not easy, but monogamy is not easy either, and they have their own respective challenges. And that it is a great opportunity to learn if you're desiring to learn about relationships that have a relationship style that really forces you to confront questions of your needs and your partner's needs and what your boundaries are. because for most, I think monogamy comes with a pretty concrete, like, set of rules that most people adhere to, you know, and there's a little flexibility here and there, but, you know, for the most part, it's pretty straightforward. And here is an opportunity to, play by your own game.

F: I love that, guys. It's been great. I really think that people, especially people in polyamorous relationships, but I think also generally people in any type of relationship would really benefit from your advice. So I think this is a good place to end. Really enjoy the conversation, and I hope that the listeners will too.

A: Thank you so much for.

F: Well, I hope you guys were taking notes because there were so many good points that they both made. Please let me know what you thought about this episode by writing to us on Instagram @PolycuriousPodcast or via email polycuriouspodcast@gmail.com Thank you guys for listening, and I hope to see you on the next episode.