Fer: when you look at the relationship as a whole, how does it make you feel?

Vee: net let's say like over the past six weeks, over the past year, like, have you been more positive and energized by the relationship, or have you been depleted and anxious around the relationship? And I got to a point with Mr. T where I realized that I was more anxious and depleted and distracted in my life, than I was happy.

And the only time I was really happy with him was when I was actually with him.

You know, when it's a good relationship and when it's not and when you're misaligned. Like it takes time and it takes effort. But you will find someone who is aligned with you.

'

Hi everyone. I am Fer. Welcome to Polycurious, the podcast for those curious about non-monogamy. [00:01:00] Today I'm talking with Vee from Girls Gone Deep, her and her podcast partner. Elle have an amazing show that you should totally check out. They talk about kink, they talk about non-monogamy, they talk about relationships, and I'm actually going to be a guest on their show.

So if you want to listen to their podcast, and if you like what you hear today, you can find the link in the show notes.

And honestly, I loved today's conversation. It was super sexy. We talked a lot about kink. We talked about what makes a good dom. Vee shared a scene that she did with her partner. I shared a scene as well. We got into the nitty gritty of what kink can look like if you are interested in this world,

 But we not only talked about that. We also talked about a topic that I feel like it's so relevant and important in non-monogamy, which is what happens when you are [00:02:00] with someone that you want to be primaries with, but they are not available for that, whether it's because.

They are solo poly, or because they're just not interested in you in that way, and they just want you as a casual hookup or because maybe they already have a primary, but you are really into this person and you really hope that things might change. And Vee was in a situation where she fell in love with her Dom, the the person that introduced her to the world of kink.

She had to make the really hard decision to break up with him even though she was still in love, simply because he wasn't giving her what she needed and what she wanted. And I find that that's a really important thing to do if you find yourself in that position, because as I share in the interview, you might think that you can go and find your primary elsewhere, even if you're already dating someone who in your eyes would be perfect for that.

[00:03:00] But the reality is. That as much as love is infinite and you can definitely love two people at the same time when one is fixated on someone and when one wants someone to be their main person. It's really hard to go out there and be energetically available to meet other people. And I love what Vee said about how to know when to break up or not,

And actually, on the topic of breakups, I wanted to tell you about our upcoming meetup on these very topics. So if you are wondering whether you should break up or not, or if you've recently broken up, I know a lot of us have,

You should join me next Wednesday, May 6th. I'm doing a little presentation and discussion for Patreon members. You can join for free or you can become a subscriber for just $6 per month. And you can not only join the meetups, but also access a lot of extra content, a lot [00:04:00] of solo episodes with advice around non-monogamy.

And actually on that note, You will also be able to access my conversation with Vee about deescalating, right? So sometimes we think that instead of breaking up cold Turkey, The best thing to do is to deescalate their relationship. Right?

And Vee shares her experience doing that with her previous partner and how that went down. I think that it can go either way, right? Like it can make it really hard to really get over. The romantic aspect of their relationship, or perhaps in some cases, although I see this rarely, it can actually work to go from a romantic relationship to a sexual relationship, to a friendship, et cetera.

 so if you want to check that out or you want to join me next Wednesday to talk about breakups or both, all you need to do is follow the link in the show notes and subscribe to my Patreon Vee's is [00:05:00] conversation as well as the rest of the bonus content from Polycurious is behind a paywall.

But if you just want to join the meetup for breakups, you can do that for free.

Okay guys, let's get into this very sexy and very fun conversation with Vee

Fer: Vee is so great to have you on Polycurious. I actually connected with you through Instagram through your podcast. We have one guest in common. Nicole, we were

talking about BDSM and you have an amazing podcast that people should really check out.

Girls Gone Deep And I'm also hopefully going to have Elle your cohost of the podcast

 besides the podcasting world, we have some things in common. We both have lived in New

York, now you're still in New York now I'm in in Colorado, but we've gone to some similar parties and I think we just have like a similar philosophy when it comes to relationships and non-monogamy and all of that.

So I'm excited to connect today.

Vee: Me too. Thank you so much [00:06:00] for having me on. I love having deep conversations about polyamory, open lifestyle, non-monogamy in all of its forms, so I'm excited to see where this conversation is gonna go.

Fer: Yeah, me too.

 one of the things that you just mentioned before we started recording is that you had a long monogamous marriage right before you discovered non-monogamy. And I'm assuming before you discovered the world of kink. is that right?

Vee: Yes. It's so crazy to think back to a world in which I didn't know about this stuff, but I was actually just like reflecting on like when I was single right after my marriage and I was just starting to learn about, you know, all the, all the different terms and you know, I was on Feeld and when you're on Feeld you have to look up every other word that people have in their, their profile and like even just about sex and like having to pee after sex, which is just [00:07:00] like so normal to me now that it's like duh course, you do that and like of course you wash yourself afterwards.

Like, that's so normal to me. When then, you know, with monogamy and the sex ed that we had, no, I didn't know anything like. I used to get UTIs and yeast infections all the time. I'm, I'm going off on a tangent right now, but that's where my

Fer: No, it's important women out there pee after sex.

Vee: yeah, pee after sex and taste yourself.

And smell yourself.

Fer: Taste yourself.

I've never actually tried that,

Vee: I always stick my finger in and then taste it or smell it and like see what's up. Yeah. Is that that you don't do that?

Come on

Fer: No, I've never done that. See, you learn something new every day, but I always wonder, right, because of course when men go down on me, I'm like. Is it, is it tasting good? I mean, I hear, I hear it is, but

probably good to to double check. But yeah, it's crazy the lack of information and [00:08:00] education we have around women's health, generally speaking.

Like for example, I think a lot of women, you know, douche their vaginas, which you are not supposed to do. You're not supposed to put soap down there. So you know off the bat we're. Giving listeners some tips as

Vee: Yeah.

Fer: you know, how to take care of their sexual health. so it sounds like you, your previous relationship was again, vanilla.

 how did you go from single monogamous girl to Okay. I'm, I'm a non monogamous, kinky person.

Vee: Ooh, what a question. so I dove in deep with Feeld like I was just kind of saying yes to any opportunities that felt interesting to me. And so I, one of the guys that I went on a date with is a Dom, and we'll call him Mr. T. And he was wonderful and changed my life, but it was during the pandemic.

And [00:09:00] so, you know, our first meeting was like, you know, with masks on and we took a walk because that's what people did to meet then. And,  I remember, this is going like really deep, really quickly, but we went up on my roof to still be out in the open air and I had to pee and there was no bathroom up there.

And it was like, you know, like one of those shitty New York rooftops, like it wasn't finished or anything like that. and there was this like, I can't believe I'm saying this, there was this like puddle over in the corner and he was like, go pee in the puddle. And I was like, what? I can't. And he was like, go do it.

And he was just so serious and he was just like telling me what to do and I felt embarrassed and I had like pee shyness, but there was something in me that just responded to him telling me what to do. And I was like, okay, I think I'm gonna, I think I'm gonna do it. And [00:10:00] so like I peed with him watching and then like afterwards he told me, he told me I was a good girl and I was like.

Okay. I like this. And

Fer: I love it

Vee: I don't think I've ever told that story before. You're getting an exclusive here. I love

it and that was before we had done like, anything kinky, like of course he was dominant, like

we had,

Fer: that was kinky, but anything sexual, right.

Vee: any, excuse me. Yes. Anything sexual, like we had made out and you know, he was the typical type of dominance where like he pushed me up against the wall and like that was really hot and I love that kind of dominance and being taken, but.

As far as kinkiness, we hadn't done anything. And so I was like, whoa, this is, this is wild. We would rent hotel rooms because during the pandemic it was so cheap. it was like $50 a night or [00:11:00] something. And so we would stay in these really great hotel rooms and we would just have scenes.

And I didn't know what it was like to, you know, have a dom who had ev all their toys laid out ready to go. So like, you know, I would enter the hotel room and I would immediately have to get on my knees and he would put a collar on me, which now I, I see it as this, ability to kind of, lose myself a little bit in the moment.

And like, it's just like ritualizing it so that when the collar is on, I am no longer Vee I am just. Kind of like a vessel for pleasure and this scene. and then, you know, with him, I did like my, I I had a ball gag in my mouth for the first time. he face fucked me and like I had given head before, but I had never had that like, you [00:12:00] know, aspect of, of giving head where it's like they are fucking my face and they are in full control, you know?

 I did impact play with him. I used, an anal hook with him. So it was just like saying yes

Fer: a l hook. Okay. Wait, wait, wait. Hold on. What is that?

Vee: Okay, so an anal hook is a hook, right? But it's, it's got like a ball on the end so it's not sharp. And so like, think of it as like a butt plug, but it's metal and it goes into your ass and it like hooks up. And so this is my back. And so on the end it might have a loop where you can either tie your hair to it, you can tie rope, and then like, you know, have your arms back behind your head.

So like you're in this kind of like predicament bondage where like if you try to move your hands, you're pulling on the hook inside your ass, [00:13:00] right?

Fer: wow.

Vee: So it, so yes, I dove in very deep with him and I think, long answer to your question, just to circle back, I think what. My journey to being that kinky girl is just being saying yes, saying yes to everything within reason, and if it felt good, and just having this, this curiosity.

And if something, if I didn't like something I always had that, those safeguards of, you know, the safe words and we would always talk about things beforehand. And he had me fill out like a sex menu, so to say, like what I would be interested in and what I wouldn't be interested in. Have you ever filled out a sex menu?

Fer: No, actually I was just reflecting on my experiences because even though I like kink and I'm kinky and all of that, I don't think that I've ever really dated someone who's like truly a dom. You know, like with my ex. We like played with that, [00:14:00] but I feel like ultimately if I was like, oh no, let's do this, let's do that, you know, he, he would just like cave in, like

he, he wouldn't, you know, sometimes, but, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't what, like what you're describing.

And that's an experience that I've wanted to have. And at the same time when I've dated men on Feeld or like gone on one date or something with men on Feeld who say they're dominant. well, I, I actually don't think, can think of too many experiences, but I'm thinking of this one guy who was actually just like a jerk, you know what I mean?

And, and

 so I wanted to actually ask you about that. I mean, obviously it seems like this guy was really good at it

and really safe and all of that. But you know, if, if, if you're a woman that wants to find a dominant man, or even if you're a, a, a man that wants to find a dominant woman or a, or a woman that wants to be dominant, whatever, but like, what makes a good dom and how can you make sure that. You are engaging with the right people. Right? Because I think that [00:15:00] one might get confused and be like, okay, I need to play sub, so I need to do whatever they want. And then they ask you to do something that you don't want,

but you're like, oh, I want to have that experience that Vee described, or I want, you know, I'm supposed to be sub so like I shouldn't speak up or whatever.

Right. And I

think you already mentioned, of course, like let's talk about things beforehand. That's very important. Let's have safe words. But what would you say makes the difference between someone that's just kind of fakink it or just like a jerk that's like

telling you what to do with a, really considering what you want and an actual dom, you know, good dom.

Vee: I have had the same kind of experience as you, like men who say they're dominant and they're really just assholes. Um, yeah. I think that the difference is. The good doms that I have had are really, in touch with themselves emotionally and attuned Attunement is huge. Like they are holding a container [00:16:00] for you and them to play within.

 one of the doms that I interviewed on my podcast, she said she called it Sacred Theater. And so we're creating this scene where we both can play within the dom and the sub can play these roles that are extreme versions of ourselves or, or an aspect of ourself that we don't get to be in real life, quote unquote.

And so, you know, with my current dom, my, my partner, and we have, you know, he, he is. It's hard to describe, but like, he's always my dom, but like, we're not always in those roles. but when we have a scene, it's very much like I'm giving him the responsibility and giving him the,

 control. I'm [00:17:00] surrendering to him because I trust him. So I think there's trust and attunement. and he like is always reading me. And even though hes taking what he wants from me, he's only doing it within the boundaries that we have set up beforehand. So I think that's the difference.

Like if you're not. If you go on a date with someone and they say they're dominant and they just throw you up against the wall and start choking you, they don't even know if you like choking, right? Or how to what degree you like choking, you know, my doms that I feel safe with. And they're attuned to me.

They've asked me the questions beforehand, like, you know, what are your limits? What are your boundaries? What are you super into? How do you wanna feel in this scene? You know, do you wanna feel taken? Do you wanna feel adored? because there are ways to do that even with, you know, like [00:18:00] with bondage and with, you know, anal hooks that I talked about.

You know, like, and I, I also wanna caveat like that maybe your listeners are, I don't know how kinky they are, and so I don't wanna scare anyone away from kink by talking about that kind of stuff right away. Kink can be anything, and it can be as simple as, calling you a good girl.

Like that can be kinky. You can have a praise kink and you don't need to go any further than that. And it's just about like evoking these feelings and having trust between you and the dominant.

Fer: Right.

So it's not necessarily something that on a first date, you are going to get to experience all of the things, right? As you said on that first date that you had, you weren't even sexual,

but you still explore that because he. Commanded you to pee in the corner

Vee: Yeah.

Fer: And, and, and you felt like you were doing something naughty

because he told you to, but [00:19:00] like, at the end of the day, you wanted to do it right 'cause you needed

to pee or whatever, right?

Like

 I think that what you were talking about attunement, right? Like that's an example, right? He knew you wanted to pee,

right? He maybe didn't know whether you wanted to pee in the corner, but you know, he, he was asking you to do something that. You wanted to do. Right. And,

and I think that that can also translate, generally speaking, right?

I think that some men also, because like I think men know that if they, like say they're dominant in their like Feeld profile or whatever, they might get more, especially, you know, on on Feeld, the dating app. They might get more likes or whatever, but then they think like, oh, being dominant means that I need to decide what, what to do based on what I want.

Right? And, and it's like, no, you get to decide what to do based on what the sub wants. And I

think that's where the nuance is. And the sub might tell you what they want right beforehand and all of that.

Or you might also be able to like sense it right

from their face facial expression, from, from their like body, whatever. [00:20:00] And even then, if you get it wrong and you think they want something and they don't want it, then you have safe words, right?

Like, you know, the most common is like yellow, red, green,

right? Like, like if you want them to sub, you just say, red. If you want them to go slower, whatever you say yellow. but you know, it's, it's, it's good to have those words because I think that sometimes there's this this play of like, no, I don't wanna do this.

Right. But you're just kind of playing, right? So like, how do you know when, when, you are really resisting, like, really you don't want to do that? And whether we are, you're like playing that you don't want to do it. So it like, fits into the, you know, the idea that the other person is like quote unquote forcing you to do something, but at the end of the day, they're forcing you to do something that you already wanted to do.

Right.

So at the end of the day, to me, the sub is the one that's really in control,

Vee: In control. Yeah, that's, that's always the thing. And I, I do also wanna say like, that was literally my first experience. So [00:21:00] I think a better indicator of, like knowing what a good dom is, is like when I met my now Dom, so Mr. A, the first one was Mr. T. This one's Mr. A. And, on our first date, it was just a normal first date, right?

Like, we went out to dinner, we had conversation, we came back to my place and like there was some dominance, but it wasn't like a DS scene.

 the second date we sat down and talked about like, what are my limits? What are my boundaries, what are my desires? And he took all of that into consideration and then kind of like. Formed a scene out of that. And so, like for me, one of my major limits is like humiliation. And so I don't want to be like laughed at or made fun of.

That's like a major trigger for me. And so, on the flip side, I want praise. and we can talk about also like where these kinks come from and the [00:22:00] desires for these kinks come from, because I think that's so fascinating. Like, I love the psychology behind kink and sex and relationships and you know, like.

In someone's past if they were bullied, let's say, right? They can either have, I'm forgetting the phrases. There's like two ways you can either want like, resolution, or you can do repetition with agency. So basically I've been bullied in the past, and so to be laughed at, really triggers me. There are some people who would want to be laughed at and then get aftercare for it so that they can repeat the experience with agency.

Like they, they decide they have control. This time. I, on the flip side, like resolution, so I think that's the word. I want to heal that wound essentially. So I want the opposite of what I got in my bullying experience, and I want to be praised and told I'm beautiful and told I'm worthy.

 so yeah, that, I think that's very [00:23:00] interesting. And so with this new dom, I, I think that's a really good indicator of, how to know that someone is going to really take care of you. It's like they take their time. so anyone who on the first date is trying to like dom you. I, I think that's something to be a little bit wary of.

Fer: So, I'm curious, what was the first scene like, if you don't mind me asking a little bit more details. You said you, you shared with him what you were into

and then he created a scene. Can you give us like an example, it doesn't have to be the first one, but example, an example of what you communicated on the scene that he created.

Vee: I'll do that. That first one. So we started in the living room. We had our, negotiation talk. And then he said, okay, so, go like, use the bathroom, get ready, do what you need to do. But when you come out here, I want you to be naked [00:24:00] and you'll stand at attention for inspection.

And I feel like this is really intense for some people. I don't know if you want me to go

Fer: No, we want you. We want you to go to go there. so wait, but what

Vee: I don't wanna scare people away.

Fer: I don't think so. I think people are just gonna be intrigued and again.

Vee: Okay.

Fer: That doesn't have to be it, right?

Like, like all the kink that you do can be that you're called a good girl and like told which

positions to be in or whatever.

Right.

Or or for example, I don't know, being edged or something like, it

doesn't have to be like this, but I do want people, I mean, not only people, I wanna know more about that because I've actually only done like a proper scene maybe once in my life. So I'm

just like curious to see what, what's out there because yeah, I can tell you about mine.

Vee: Okay. yeah. Okay. So, inspection is basically like you put your hands behind your head and they [00:25:00] basically like, check that you're sex ready and like, do you smell good? Like, are you like properly shaved and everything like that within, you know, whatever is good for you.

 and so he'll inspect me and then, he'll tell me to like, get on my knees. So then we're in the living room and he'll usually like take his cock out at some point and like. Tell me to, to suck it. and then we somehow get to the bedroom.

Like usually he'll like lead me on a leash, and he has me blindfolded, by the way, so he puts a blindfold on me at some point. sometimes there's a little bit of impact in the beginning, so like, as he's kind of walking around me and circling me, and like, I feel his eyes on me, he has like maybe a riding crop and he's saying something to me along the lines of like, are you a good girl?

Vee Like, you know, and I'm [00:26:00] like, yes, daddy. Uh, just like kind of getting into that, mode. And then he'll be like, all right, good girl. Like, let's, let's stand up and like, come with me. And like, you know, I'm just completely beholden to him. So like, it's a really beautiful, for me. What I love about it is surrendering to someone else I have a blindfold on, so I can't see anything.

So there's that simple aspect to it. And then so there's a lot of trust and. Knowing that he's like really attuned to me. and then having his eyes on me and saying these praiseful phrases, just is very healing to know that like, you're sexy, you're loved, you are desired. and then just like the, the, the fact that his cock is hard, you know, and like he, he puts it near my mouth and, you know, he affirms me being like a good little slut.

Like that's also rewriting [00:27:00] these, messages that we've been given, that like, it's not okay to be a slut. It's not okay to be desirous as a woman, you know? So it's, that's what I'm loving about this. So then he leads me into the bedroom and he tells me to lean over the bed. And so I like impact play. and impact play is spanking using any kind of implements on the body to make impact, let's say.

 so everything from spanking to floss to whips to chains, like I like all of that. my level of pain tolerance differs depending on like where I am in my cycle, which is something that has been really interesting to track, as I'm getting more advanced in this, let's say. But, You know, he'll have me bend over the bed.

I still have the blindfold on, so I don't know what he's doing. And it's like your, all of your awareness is heightened and you're like, oh God, when's he gonna come over? But like, you trust. And so for me it's just this like very therapeutic experience of like learning to [00:28:00] self-regulate and like seeing where my mind goes.

But the point is to try to quiet your mind, you know? That's what sub space. Can be. And so he'll come over and he'll start really slow and he'll like warm up my ass cheeks to get the blood flowing. And then he'll start like, spanking and we'll go a little harder, and then he'll bring in a flogger and then he'll bring in, you know, other implements.

 so the impact scenes are awesome opportunities for me to, I like to think of them as like a microcosm of the world, right? So, and, and how I interact with the world. So like, when I am receiving that impact, each hit is like. Something challenging or difficult or uncomfortable, right? And in the world, how am I gonna deal with that?

And so like, I'm kind of, this is me and I like intellectualize shit. So take this or leave this. But I like to be like, all [00:29:00] right, like, girl, you breathe through it. Like how can you find the pleasure between the pain? Like how can you really like just, take the pain and transmute it and alchemize it like into your body, you know, how can you make it, a little bit less uncomfortable sometimes that's putting a vibrator on your clit if you're dom, will allow you to do that.

And so, you know, kind of like distracting. So it's just this beautiful opportunity to play with, how I want to be in the wider world in this like microcosm, In this scene. And so then after Impact play, like he'll usually like, you know, feel me, and I'm wet. And so he'll like finger me, maybe he'll put a butt plug in me.

 and I, I love being like a toy for him because one of my core desires in sex is to be desired and to be adored and to be taken, like he wants me so much that he [00:30:00] just, he wants all my holes and he wants to just use me as his sex object. And so, So then he does. And um, so he'll like, make me turn around.

He'll fuck me, he'll fuck my face, he'll, you know, all of that. And like, all the while he's all about my pleasure. So, you know, he'll make me keep the wand on me even when I've come already and I'm like, I can't take anymore. And like, I just keep going. And then, you know, he'll get the Njoy out, which is like a silver, it looks almost like a parentheses.

 if people aren't familiar with it, it looks like that. and you stick it inside and it's like

Fer: That's the one that's like really good. Yeah. Like really good for squirting, I think. Yeah.

Vee: It's good for it and yeah, I don't have one It's also good for p spot play for men. So, for the prostate, it, it just has the perfect curve to hit the G-spot or the p spot for men.

Fer: Yeah, and [00:31:00] I'll find it and add the link in the show notes if people wanna buy

some of these toys we're talking about.

Vee: It's one of the best to the two toys that everybody needs in their arsenal, I think are the magic wand. The Hitachi, like, it's just the best.

Fer: And then the end Joy,

 But in any case, just to finish out the scene, so like he's really like all about my pleasure and then like, using me and, afterwards, he'll, you know, ritualize taking off my collar and, you know, we kind of breathe together and he's behind me and he's like, okay, I'm gonna count down.

Vee: And he counts down. And when he's done, he takes it off. He puts his hand on my throat afterwards because, that absence of the collar when it's been there for so long, like you really feel the difference. similarly to. When you have sex and a dude just like pulls out when they're done, like, do you feel that like, oh my [00:32:00] God, like your, your, your hole is just like empty all of a

sudden.

Like, I like a slow pullout. Do you know what I'm talking about?

Fer: Yes,

a hundred Yeah. So, and that's a whole other thing. But, so then we will do that, and then we'll lay together and like, he'll hold me. And so like, the aftercare is really important too. So it's important for the sub and it's important for the dom because the dom probably just did things that they don't normally do, right?

Vee: Like they, they, we are allowing them as the sub to say things and do things to a human that they don't normally do. So like, they might be feeling like very, their nervous system might be on edge. And so it's important to just like, hold each other and, and, and help each other, like come back into the real world.

Fer: Yeah. Nice. Well,

Vee: So that's a scene.

Fer: Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned aftercare because that's super important

and yeah, I [00:33:00] mean, I love it and I don't think, I don't think it's too intimidating for people out there. I don't know. well, I'll quickly tell you about mine because I'm a

woman of my word, but then I wanna hear your, you know, continuing into your story.

 So this person wanted me to be basically like, to have like a, like a good girl look like a night, like an innocent girl. Look.

So I got this, I, I like put like two ponytails on and like, I had this outfit that was all pink and like sheer, it was kind of like covered but sheer,

you know, and like had like a skirt and had hearts and it was like old, like hot pink.

Fer: so something I really like is, you know, being, taking pictures of or videos or whatever and like dressing up and all of that. So, you know, it was a little bit of like a, we had to twist the scene a a little bit, but basically like I was, a. [00:34:00] OnlyFans girl, whatever that was like doing a photo shoot with him. but I'm, I'm like

Vee: Oh, this is so hot.

Fer: I have a boyfriend, which plays into the fact that I do have a boyfriend, right? So it's like, and that, you know, I wasn't supposed to you know, be with him, whatever. but he was like the photographer for my shoot, and then he'd like, make moves on me and I'd be like, no, no, no.

You know, I'm engaged 'cause I'm engaged.

Vee: Mm-hmm.

Fer: And, and then we did, consent, non-consent, basically, like we, you know, pretended that he was basically like forcing himself on me, you know, after we took like a bunch of pictures and stuff. So, yeah, that was the scene and it was really fun. And, and again, it was like the first time I was like, roleplaying and all of that, and I was like, oh my God, I, I'm really into this.

I wanna do more of this. Um, so yeah, definitely interested in learning more about this world.

Vee: Hold on before we move on. There's so much there. Okay. First of all, I love that you guys like role [00:35:00] played and like had a scene. I like doing that. It is hard for me to get out of my head to like play a role. but I think that can be a really great, avenue for people to explore to get into this. and then also the whole CNC of it, the consensual non-consent.

So, it's also known as a rape fantasy. I also have that and I have played with it with Mr. A, my current dom and I love it. And so I wanna normalize that. And I also wanna talk about the psychology behind it. 'cause I've thought about this a lot and I've researched it a lot. Have you looked into it?

Fer: No, tell us all about it.

Vee: So basically, people think like, why would a woman want to play around with like, being raped, right?

 and sorry, this is raped is a very, can be a triggering word. So, I'll try to use it as sparingly as possible. Why would people want to, to play around with [00:36:00] that and, it's really about the concept of being wanted and desired so much that someone is willing to go to jail and do something like.

Illegal to have you like, and for me, that really tickles my core desire of like wanting to be like affirmed and validated in my attractiveness, my worthiness, like my desirability. so it's that. And then also just kind of taking it out of your hands. So societal messaging has always said to women that like, we shouldn't want sex as much as men, or, you know, to what degree, whatever, fill that in yourself.

But, we shouldn't want sex, right? So when you are being taken against your will and playing this role of like, oh no, don't do it. You are [00:37:00] able to tap into that part of yourself that's like, well, it was him who did it. I didn't do it right. And so like, I, I had no choice in the matter. And so it's, it's.

Very satisfying. When someone is kind of like, has always been told that they're not allowed to have it, it's like, fine. Like, take it from me then. so those are like the two things that, that come to mind with CNC play. and I have also had some really hot scenes with Mr. A, like that, like we, we played just like organically came into it.

Like we were just kind of like fucking and making out and, and playing. And at some point he was on top of me and he had his hands. On my wrists, and I just, something came over me and I was like, I didn't want this when you came over to study. And then we just like rolled with it. And I was like, I'm a virgin.

And he was like, all right, then you can choose [00:38:00] either like your pussy or your mouth. And then like, you know, we just like went with it. And at one point I even was like, oh, if you, if you like, you know, fuck me. Instead of like my mouth, like I, I, I won't struggle, I promise. And then like as he was moving between, I like pushed him off and I like tried to run from him and he grabbed me and like, that's really hot to me too.

The whole like primal play of like, you know, wrestling and like being manhandled. So just like little things here that can be played with, and teased out. So I like the CNC. Happy for you that you got that.

Fer: I like what you said about, you know, the psychology behind it because I had heard the second thing you said, the, oh, I'm not doing it like he's doing it, so I don't feel, have to feel guilty for

it, but I don't identify with that because I've never really had too much like, shame around sex,

luckily for me. But I do identify with the first part of like, he wants me so much that he doesn't give a fuck and he'll do whatever to get me

right. So I think [00:39:00] that's the part that like, turns me on about, about, you know, consensual non-consent.

But anyhow. Okay. So, so tell me, while you were dating, what was it, Mr.

TI think,

right? Yeah.

Vee: When you were dating Mr. T, this person that introduced you to kink, was he dating other people? Were you non-monogamous? Yeah, I mean, he was dating other people. I thought I was dating other people, but I think I really just wanted him. And so it ended because, we were in very different places. as far as our non-monogamous journey, like I was falling in love with him and disclaimer and like alert for, exploring DS Dynamics, like it can be.

The, the intensity that these scenes are and the trust that it takes to do them. I do find that subs often will develop feelings for their doms. That's not everybody, that's a [00:40:00] very general statement, but, it has been true in my case for sure. because you're just, you know, they're your, your daddy, your, your dom, your, your sir, your whatever.

And, So, yeah, I was falling in love and he definitely like, wanted to continue being as polyamorous as he was. And there were some other incompatibilities there, but, and at the same time I was dating other people and I, ended up, I think like everything works out as it should, right? Like, so as things were, slowing down with Mr.

T, things were ramping up with, the man who became my first primary partner and partner and lover and crime. For four years in non-monogamy.

 I'm curious about Mr. T. Wanting to continue be you said as as non monogamous as he was,

Fer: and you sounds like you wanted him to maybe like become your primary or

something. Right. [00:41:00] And, and then he wasn't available for that.

 I'm curious about that because I think, that a lot of people experience that, right?

Like they start dating someone who's non monogamous and they're like, I want this person to be my person. But

then the, the other person doesn't want that. So how did you deal with that? Because you know, what I always tell people is, well then, you know, turn around and look for your person. It sounds like you did that, but also it's not that easy, right?

Especially if you're like more like monogamous leaning, you know, you might want to date other people and everything, but as you said, I was quote unquote dating other people, but I really just wanted him. Right. So that

can be really tough.

So any tips for people who might be in that, in that situation, or what do you think might be something that they can do if they want someone that they can't have of their, as their primary.

Vee: Okay. So one of the things that I have always tried to live by in this lifestyle is [00:42:00] basically no relationship is always going to be awesome. Right? And, and I think that's realistic, too. Understand that there are gonna be rough days, et cetera, but when you look at the relationship as a whole, how does it make you feel?

 net let's say like over the past six weeks, over the past year, like, have you been more positive and energized by the relationship, or have you been depleted and anxious around the relationship? And I got to a point with Mr. T where I realized that I was more anxious and depleted and distracted in my life, than I was happy.

And the only time I was really happy with him was when I was actually with him. The rest of the time. I was so preoccupied with like, what's he doing? Who's he with? Like, when was the last time he texted? Am I texting too much? Like just overthinking and going crazy. So I finally, [00:43:00] like, I did some journaling.

Fer: I had a dating coach who was so instrumental in my journey. Her name is Amber Grubenmann and I recommend her to anybody. We actually had her on our podcast, so look up that episode too, if you just want some nuggets. I'll add it in the show notes.

Vee: yeah. Great. she was so helpful 'cause basically she teaches, dating from a confident base and just being the woman that you want to be and bringing that to the world and to your dating life.

And. I wasn't being the woman that I wanted to be when I was preoccupied and anxious and overthinking. Right. And so finally I got, after like journaling and talking to her, I had a conversation with him and I said, very tearfully. I was so sad. I was like, I am falling in love with you and I can't do this anymore because it seems like we don't want the same things.

' cause I had said to [00:44:00] him before, like, that I was falling in love with him and like not gotten the response that I wanted and like, et cetera. So like, it was a lead up to this conversation. and he was like, you know, very loving and 'cause he, he did love me in his own way, but like I was so early in my poly journey that like, I didn't, I, I didn't know that he could have love for me and others at the same time.

I knew it in, uh, like as an idea, but I didn't know it in my bones that that was a true thing.

Fer: what I would have wanted was for him to stop seeing other people. but my

or at least to prioritize you,

Vee: or prioritize me, make me his primary.

Yeah. And I think that when you're not on the same page, as long as you're still happy. You can continue that, but when it tips over into you're not happy net [00:45:00] in this relationship, it's time to let go. And so I had that conversation with him and it was really fucking hard. Um, 'cause also there's that part of you that's like, but what if he changes his mind and like, I'm the one who's asking for this.

Like, no, don't do it. But it was the right decision in the end. and so I think that that's what I would advise for people is like, basically just like feel into yourself. You know, when it's a good relationship and when it's not and when you're misaligned. Like it takes time and it takes effort. But you will find someone who is aligned with you.

You just have to trust that if you keep putting yourself out there, like you will find the right fit at the right time. 'cause so much of it about is about timing too, right?

Fer: Yeah, a hundred percent. Well, good for you for making that really tough decision, right? Like it's really hard to break up with someone when you still love them and you wanted to [00:46:00] make it work, but you're misaligned. and I really like what you said about if the only time that you're happy is when you're with them, but when you're not with them, you're preoccupied and you're worried and you're thinking about how you want things to be different and whatever, then it might not be very healthy.

I'm thinking about my, my relationship with my secondary, who I broke up with back in October, and it was a similar situation when. When it was good, it was great. Right? But like, I don't know if you've seen this meme online that if you find yourself saying, but when it's good, it's good. That's maybe a sign to,

to break up, right?

Be because like no matter how good the good is, if it comes with stress, if it's affecting your mental health, your physical health, whatever, it's just not worth it. Right. And I think that even though in my situation, I wasn't hoping that he chose me at his primary or anything like that, at the end of the day, I had to choose [00:47:00] myself.

You know, just like you had to choose yourself

when you did that. And I think that it also depends on what you're looking for and what you want, right? I think the issue is that some people think, okay, well I can continue seeing this person and find my primary.

 But then like it happened to you, you realize I can't really do that because as long as I'm with this person, I'm going to be, I'm going to want that person to be my primary, and whoever I'm dating is going to fall short.

Right? So even if you're non monogamous, I, I always advise people, if you want the primary and this person is not able to give it to you and you really want it from them, you might have to break up to find your primary, because you're always going to like be holding onto that hope that they might change at some point. And if they don't want that right now, it's very unlikely that they will want it in the future. Even if they say that, you know?

Vee: Yeah. Ugh. It's a hard lesson to learn and [00:48:00] it's hard to integrate, but it's, it's so important.

Yeah, And I think in non-monogamy, it happens a lot that, that there's like misaligned intentions, right? Because in monogamy it's like, okay, if we're dating, we want to get together and get married and have kids, right. In non-monogamy, like if we're dating,

Fer: we might It could mean so

Vee: many different things. So it's like you have to make sure that, that you're somewhat aligned, you

Fer: know, in, in that way of, of what you want out of the relationship. For sure.

Um, okay, so then, you know, you broke up with Mr. T,

 you made space for J,

right? Which is another thing, like if you had just. Kept hoping that Mr. T changed his mind, you probably wouldn't have actually developed that relationship with Jay. Who was the one that you were, you know, who became your primary and you were four, four years with, any, you know, I don't wanna go too much into it because I want to ask you about the de deescalation that you mentioned, that you

deescalated the relationship, but [00:49:00] any kind of, highlights or like big lessons that came out of that four year journey of finally having a primary and exploring non-monogamy.

Vee: Hmm. Okay. One, it is when dealing with jealousy. so we started open from the very beginning, and when my feelings started to develop for him, I started experiencing more jealousy when he would go out on dates with other people. And I talked to him and I was like, Hey, do you think we could close this for a little bit so we're monogamous so that we can get our foundation, under, under us, and then open it back up.

And he, you know, very lovingly, said to me, you know, like, I, I don't know if that's something that you actually want or if that's just your fear talking. And I was like, huh, say more. And he was like, you know, I know you and I know you like to explore other connections. And so [00:50:00] I think the way that we can.

Kind of work with jealousy is to be in those other connections and then see what, what we can do to support each other in any uncomfortable feelings that we have. And so he and I were able to, it's kind of like you can't learn to play guitar by reading a book about guitar. You have to actually get out the guitar and like strum the strings.

Right? and so I think this is a good example of that. Like you can't learn how to manage your jealousy unless you're putting yourself in situations where you get jealous and sit with the uncomfortable feelings and have, you know, tools and self-regulation skills to help yourself when your partner is out on a date.

And so he and I developed the tool of like, so for me. The jealousy came about at the end of the night if he would have a sleepover or something, like if I didn't hear from him, it felt like I wasn't thought of. And so [00:51:00] all I needed we discovered was just a text at the end of the night right before he went to sleep, or if he was coming home from that person's house, he would send me an audio note so that I could hear it in the morning or obviously if I was awake he would call me, but like basically feeling like I was thought of.

Fer: So that was like a huge, huge aha moment for me that made the rest of our four years so much easier because we had, you know, that, that kind of tool under our belts Yeah, thanks for sharing that. I think that different people need different things, but I have heard a lot this kind of like, let's check in before, let's check in after type of thing. But it also can go. Wrong. Right. Because some people might just be like waiting for that text and being like, oh my God, it's 2:00 AM they're still having fun.

I haven't gotten that text or, or that call. Right. So it's, I

feel like that's a great tip for some people,

but it really depends, you know, some people rather like the check-in in the morning, so they don't have to like be up at night being like, when am I gonna get my check in? How long have they been [00:52:00] together?

Are they having sex or not? Whatever. But I like that tip. what did you do for self-regulation? do you have any sort of like ritual or like tips besides whatever your partner can do to give you that reassurance that you personally do?

Vee: Mm-hmm. yeah, so actually I'm, I'm a somatica trained, sex and relationship coach and we call it the resiliency basket. So basically what's in your resiliency basket? Is it like, you know, drink, drinking some tea and reading a novel and going in the bath? Like, just like really doing like a self care night?

Is it doing, a somatic practice like going to five rhythms or ecstatic dance where you're just like dancing out the emotions. That's been a huge part of my journey of like, you know, we're taught so much to hold emotions in, in society, but like when emotions are pushed down and down and down, they're gonna come out at some point.

So with jealousy, I just [00:53:00] wanna fucking feel it, you know, like move it through your body and it just helps so much. That's why like going to the gym is really helpful and like running. we also say like, sound, breath and movement are always at your, what is the word?

Fer: Disposal.

Vee: Disposal. Thank you. Sound, breath and movement are always at your disposal.

So like those are really good things to help you move, energy through your body. And if you think of emotions as energy in motion, you can move it through your body by like, uh, like if you're not used to making sound like on the outbreath, like that probably sounds strange to you, but I invite you to just like, give it a go and like move your body, like turn on a song and like just shake it out.

A lot of our energy is held in our hips, so like if you like, jiggle your hips and you can pound it out of your chest. So there's a lot [00:54:00] of like those kind of regulatory practices that really work for me. And then also, like just journaling. Journaling is huge for me. Just like write it out.

Usually by the end it helps a little bit. And then if I'm still activated, write it out some more. Or, you know, record a voice note saying all the things that you wanna say to your partner. or call a friend, but record the voice note. Don't send it to your partner. Just like, get it out of your body.

Yeah, I love it. I love it.

What do you add to that, well, you know, I have this method called rain. I mean, it's not my method. it's from a meditation teacher, but I've like changed it a little bit. But part of the method is, you know, R is recognizing a allow, and I was gonna add to your tips. I think a lot of the time we are like, oh, I shouldn't feel jealous because I know in my head that there's nothing wrong with my partner going on a [00:55:00] date and that they love

Fer: me on whatever. But you still have that feeling. And sometimes even if we go dancing or, or journal or whatever, we have this thing of like, okay, I want to like push this feeling away. Right. And and

the allowing part is really just sitting in the discomfort. Right. And that's something that has been transformative for me because instead of. Being like, okay, I'm gonna journal it out. I also love journaling, and that helps. But it's like,

sometimes you just need to like, sit with it in your body and then you're

like, you'll see it and you'll be like, okay, jealousy, welcome in.

And then you'll feel like shit for like 20

minutes, you know? And like you'll just breathe through it, go back to your body sensations. And then after I do the investigating, which usually is journaling for me. And then the last part is the nurturing, which is

literally like talking to yourself and being like, you know, if your friend came to you and said, Hey, I'm jealous because X, Y, and Z. Like, what would you tell your friend? Right?

And so you just tell that to yourself, like, this person loves me, I'm valuable. It's okay to feel this way, whatever. [00:56:00] Right? So you also have that, closure of the, of, of the emotion, you know? And, and it's not

like you do it and then you don't feel jealous at all, but you, you calm your nervous system down. So that's what I do and what I teach my clients as well. that really helps.

Vee: that acronym is amazing. I feel like I do all those things, but just in like, not that order and like I haven't recognized recognized, but like, yeah, used rain. I love that. Recognize, allow.

Fer: investigate and nurture. Yeah, I'll add a link in the show notes to a patron episode where it's, it's called like what to do when your Partner is on a date, but I talk about rain.

 it's been life changing and it's not just with jealousy, right? Like any feeling, you know, any

big feeling.

 and I think it's especially life changing for me. Both the allowing, again, like letting yourself be, be uncomfortable and like

feeling shitty and being, letting yourself feel shitty is important.

But

also the nurturing, the, like talking to yourself and giving yourself [00:57:00] like that support has

been huge for me because I'm someone who normally wants to get that comfort from my partner or my mom or my friend or whatever, right? Like, oh, this happened to me, and you want them to tell you all of those things.

It's okay to feel this way. They love you, whatever. It's like, no, no, no girl. You can, you can tell it to yourself. You

can be your own best friends. You can be your own support system. So that has been

really big for me. And of course after I do that, I go and talk to my loved ones and they also support me.

But

there's something really powerful about being like, I've already supported myself and talked to

myself and told myself the things that I need to hear, you know?

Vee: you wanna know that you are resourced first and then you can go to your friends. Like, what if your friends are not around?

Like, you gotta

Fer: Or what if they don't know what to say or like they say the wrong thing or whatever. Right. If you come with this scarcity of like, oh, I need them like this whole of like, I need them to tell, say something to make me feel better and they get it

wrong. It feels, you feel like double worst, you know? I'm sure you [00:58:00] like people have experienced that, especially with your partner, right.

Because we put a lot of that emotional load on our partner. But if you are already told yourself what you need to hear, if they don't get it right, it's not gonna hit you that hard.

Um, but yeah. So much to talk about,

 I don't think we have time to go into how you deescalated your relationship with Jay this time, but let's just save that conversation for Patreon and I'm gonna add the link in the show notes, because I think a lot of people, especially non-monogamy, they're like, oh, I don't need to break up. I can just deescalate

this relationship, but I actually am of, of the mind that you do need like kind of a clean break when you break up. So I'm really curious to hear how it that went for you, and we'll have that conversation later, but tell me more about your relationship with Jay and other lessons that came with it.

Vee: So another major thing with him was we, went to a lot of sex parties [00:59:00] together and a lot of, lifestyle resorts together.

Fer: we had this ritual before everyone, where we would sit down with our friends that we were going with, or just each other, if it was just us two. And talk about fears, desires, and boundary. so what were our fears for the night?

Vee: What were our desires for the night and what were our boundaries for the night? And that was always just a really great way to start thinking about what kind of intentions we wanted going into it.

 Did you have any kind of like thoughts or, or rituals that you went through before going into a sex party?

And did you go as a couple?

Fer: no, so my partner is monogamous.

Vee: Okay.

Fer: I've never gone to a play party with a partner,

unfortunately. Well, unfortunately, and at the same time, one of the questions that I had for you was, how did you feel about seeing your partner with other people? Because as, you know, [01:00:00] kinky as I can be or whatever, like that thought doesn't actually seem very appealing to me.

I mean, I had threesomes with my secondary partner and that was nice, but even then, like I did experience the first time, I did experience a little bit of jealousy

and I can imagine at a play party, you know, there's so many people and if I, I don't know if I'm not connecting with someone and I see my partner connecting with someone else, like what? Like I just feel I've, I've loved going, like as a solo girl. 'cause obviously

you get all the attention and you, you know, you can kind of like pick and choose what you do. But I'm, I'd be really curious how going with a partner might be if you are maybe a little hesitant to see them having sex with other people, or, or you maybe feel left out, or maybe if you have different desires, right?

 I think those are two different things. So like when your desires are, are not the same, you can have a conversation about that and see where you can meet in the middle

Vee: but to the point of like seeing your partner with [01:01:00] someone else, either when you're involved or not personally, I felt a lot of compersion and still feel a lot of compersion with my current partner. but I think the way that I was able to get there is, for me, it's very important to have positive regard for my metamours or the, the people that they are, that my partner is playing with.

 I think metamour is like actually someone that they're dating, but, I would say like if it's just someone that they're playing with that night or that week, it's very important to me that mine were very like, kind of heteronormative connections. And so the woman made an effort to come to me and talk to me as Jay's partner and say like, Hey, I'm connecting with Jay.

Like I'd love to know you a little bit. Like they have to show some kind of interest in me and like I need to feel respected by them and that they know that me and Jay are together and [01:02:00] you know, this is fun. You know, they're not gonna try to like steal him away from me. and so I think that also we were able to find like a really great crew that we, we call it our joy family.

Like it was like up to 40 people at one point where like everyone just kind of knew each other. Most people were married or in long-term relationships. And so like everyone just really understood the primary relationships and so therefore we felt very safe playing within it. So I felt very compulsive whenever he would play with any of those women because they were my friends and like they love me, I love them.

So two people that I love are like playing together and it truly is play. You know, in that instance it just feels like. They're just having fun together. And I'm like, yeah, babe, go get it.

 Like I just had a foursome with Mr. A this past weekend, which was a little bit more of like an FFM, and I [01:03:00] was watching him fuck the other woman, and I was just like, yes, babe. Like, that's so hot.

Like, I love watching my man whose moves I love, and like I know what it feels like when he's inside me or doing that trick with his fingers or his tongue or whatever on me when he's doing it to someone else. I'm like, yeah, that's right. I know he's getting after it, and guess what? He's coming home with me afterwards, you know?

Fer: right. So there's also that aspect, right?

 whatever he's doing with this other person, like. He'll do to me. I know how that feels. Like he'll

do to me, you know, tomorrow

Vee: That's my man.

Fer: five minutes. Exactly. That's my man. Yeah. Playing with that. That's great. So quickly tell us how did your, relationship with Jay and that, again, we're not gonna go into the escalation just yet because we're saving that for the Patreon, but what caused the end of this four year relationship with this person that you were going to all these play parties with and, and you had what sounds like a really healthy primary relationship with.

Vee: Yeah, there's still so [01:04:00] much love there and that's why we decided to deescalate rather than decouple completely. but we just realized that we were not compatible in a lot of ways and we just kind of like weren't enjoying the play parties in the same way. And essentially we knew that there was a lot of love there.

Also there could be a better fit elsewhere.

 it just came out of like, you know, party after party realizing that we were doing it differently. and there was a lack of intimacy. At home.

So like we thought we were communicating and being intimate, but like, I don't think we really were, in hindsight, I didn't feel like my needs were being met. And I know his needs were not being met. And so, you know, he, he asked for group sex a lot. Like that's one of his kinks. He [01:05:00] really likes it. And for me, like my nervous system is on overload, when I'm in group sex often.

And so like, I often have to turn to like substances to help me get through group sex, you know? And so like that's an incompatibility. And so like, we'd be looking elsewhere for that. And then, for me, kink is huge and he's not super kinky and like in like to DS Dynamics. he would do it a little bit to like, please me, but you know, it just, neither of what really lit each of us up lit the other one up.

Does that make sense?

Fer: Yeah. Yeah,

that makes sense. And Yeah.

I was gonna ask like, oh, was he also dominant? 'cause I know we talked about, Mr. T being that way and, and sounds like Mr. A

as well. That's why there are Mr. and J was just J

Vee: Yeah. No, Jay, yeah. Yep.

Fer: Yeah. Okay.

Wonderful. dominant in like the normal [01:06:00] way, quote unquote, like vanilla dominance in the bedroom. But like, he doesn't like to do like a scene, if that makes sense. Like he's not like Kinky BDSM dominant, if that makes sense.

Vee: Yeah. No, makes, makes total sense.

Fer: tell us where you are at today. So I

know that you are with, Mr. A

and I believe when we first connected, you mentioned how he's maybe new to non-monogamy, right? And that has been a little bit of like a journey, but how long have you been with him and what has your experience been like?

It sounds like it's going amazing and he's also dominant and, and does fulfill those desires that maybe Jay wasn't fully fulfilling.

Um, but yeah, tell us a little bit about like where you are today with that relationship.

Vee: yes, he's my dom. He's my daddy. I'm his baby girl. and also we're partners and lovers and besties and, we go to play parties together and we are just like slowly having conversations about playing with others. He had a [01:07:00] little bit of experience before, before we dated, but he would say he is mostly monogamous.

And so that's where like the kind of discrepancy was in the beginning. but as we build a secure attachment together, we are able to open up more securely. And so we are playing with that. We are having, you know, threesomes, foursomes and like going to parties together and, and slowly playing separately.

Fer: Well, Vee I really feel like I have to have you back because I feel like we just like scratched the surface and I really enjoyed this conversation. But my last question to you,

what would you tell to a curious person? So any final words of advice based on your experience or what we talked about in this conversation?

Hmm. I would say stay curious with, to use poly curious. You know, I think curiosity, say poly curious. I think it's just like, investigate more, investigate your [01:08:00] feelings. if there's a new opportunity that arises, say yes. And then, you know, use your safe words. You can always change your mind.

Vee: So just like being curious.

Fer: Thank you so much for sharing all that. It was so lovely to have you on the podcast and looking

forward to more conversations.

Vee: It's so easy to talk to. I love it. so guys, go check out Girl. Gone deep.

Fer: Yes, I will link that in

the show notes and I'll also be a guest there, so I'll make sure to direct all my listeners there. It's an amazing podcast, and if you enjoyed all of these like juicy little details and banter, and I think that you're gonna really love Girls Gone Deep. So

guys, check it out. And v, thank you so much for being on the podcast.