Seth: Jealousy is something that is in our heads. But really when you focus on just what actually impacts you, you when you come home from a date and you're not bringing any negativity with you, you're bringing energy with you. And so what actually impacts me is a positive experience.

Fernanda: Hi everyone. I'm so excited to be back. I've been wanting to do this Mono-Poly or Mono-Open mini series for a while now because as you know, I'm a non-monogamous person in a monogamous partnership. Make sure to subscribe if you want to listen to the upcoming mono open couples that I will be talking to. And today I'm talking to my partner, Seth. This is kind of a follow up from our first conversation which we had. I think it's already been like three or so years ago. So if you have not listened to.

F: That episode, that's episode 12, I would.

F: Highly, highly recommend you go and listen to that first. But today we're talking about where we are. What has happened in those three years would have changed having been together for now over six years. But also we are answering some questions from the community and I think this episode will be especially valuable for men. But anyone in a partnership where you might have different non-monogamous styles, which happens a lot. I've been actually working with a lot of mono open couples as a coach. So if you're interested in booking a free exploratory call with me, you can just follow the link in the show notes and we can chat for free about where I might be able to help you. So today Seth and I are going to talk about why he's comfortable being monogamous, why he's comfortable with the idea that I go out and get some of m my sexual desires made by other people. Because as we'll get into, even though Seth I have a great sexual connection, he's just not as interested in sex as I am. And I think that that's the case with a lot of people. But not everyone is comfortable admitting that to themselves. And a lot of couples I see try to fit with the non-monogamous style of their partner. So I'm hoping that this miniseries will give you permission to do non-monogamy differently from your partner. You really do not have to be doing the same things. Everyone's different, everyone has different backgrounds. And as you will learn today, I think there's a lot of power in being okay with your partner doing things that you don't do or the other way around. We are in A hierarch relationship, which I know is s not everyone's preference and that's totally fine. But for us, prioritizing our relationship in a mono open dynamic has really been one of the main reasons why we have made this successful. And last but not least, we talk about our don’t ask, don't tell dynamic. And when I say don'asks don't tell, people assume that Seth doesn't know what I'm doing or something like that. For us, we're taking it in the very literal sense of the word, as in if he doesn't ask me, I don't tell him. So basically I come back from dates, we don't talk about it. But however, that doesn't mean that we are disconnected because he doesn't know what's going on with my life or if there's a significant relationship or a significant event in my relationships with other people, I can share that he can ask about it. So, I really hope this can be an example to some people because I know a lot of you struggle with feeling like you should be hearing about everything or on the other side that if you are not sharing, maybe you are doing something wrong or maybe the other person is not really actually okay with it. And I think our relationship can be an example of how that doesn't have to be the case. And sometimes not sharing certain things can actually be good. Before we start, I wanted to invite you, if you are also in a mono open relationship, to join our new WhatsApp group from our Polycurious Community for mono open couples or people who are curious about that. You will find the link in the show notes. Also, if you are interested in subscribing to my newsletter where you'll get notified when new episodes drop, where you'll get writing about my non-monogamous experience and advice for people who are opening up in your journey. You'll also find the link there. And lastly, I wanted to invite you to join my Patreon where you'll also find a lot of extra content. You'll get access to a monthly support group. So if you want to connect further with me and with this community, just go to the episode description and check everything out. Okay guys, without further ado, this is my interview with Seth.

F: Baby, thank you so much for doing this for me again. I know that putting yourself out there is not the most comfortable always, so I appreciate you doing it for a second time for me and for the listeners out there. We're back and it's time on the.

S: Side of a fire up in the mountains of Colorado. Camping.

F: Exactly.

S: So you can hear it in the background. It's lovely.

F: Yeah. We are by the fire. There's some, beef, potato, carrots, stew that I made cooking in the stove.

S: It's almost a full moon, but not quite. We're at 10,000ft near Vale, Colorado, which by the way is our. Not Valil, but Colorado is our new home. After our year long journey that we've been on, we picked Denver and have been moving in and settling in. And this is our first time camping, which was a big part of why we moved here.

F: Yeah, that's right, baby. I feel like camping is something that really connects us in many ways. because we met at Burning man while we were camping. A very different type of camp.

S: Very different type of camping, of course, but sure, yeah, camping.

F: And then just two weeks after, when I first went to visit you in San Francisco, we also went camping.

S: Yeah, we went out near Tahoe. That was nice.

F: And I feel like even though there's a lot of adventures that I have on my own, I feel like the way that we adventure together is by camping.

S: I'm so glad you're into camping. It's so important to me. I'm so glad we could share that.

F: Yeah, me too. So I feel like it's such a special thing that we're here doing this interview together. find this special place for us. Okay, baby, before we kind of do like a recap, on where we're ah at, why don't we start with some community questions?

S: Sure.

F: The question is, did the transition have an influence on Seth's confidence or the intimacy within our relationship?

S: What transition?

F: The transition between being monogamous to being open.

S: Did the transition have an impact on my confidence?

F: I actually think that I brought this up to you when we were preparing for the interview and you basically kind of said no. And I mean, obviously you can expand on it. But you know, I ask you, even though you know that my relationships with other people are mostly sexual, don't you then feel insecure when we're having sex or something like that? Because that's how I think a lot of people feel. And you were like, no, I don't. And when I asked you why, you said, I'll have to think more about that.

S: Yeah, that's what I was thinking about. I don't feel like us, opening up has ever really affected my confidence. No. I think as I've talked about before, you do such a good job with your communication of your feelings and affection for me that that doesn't leave room for a lot of doubt. And so there's never a void that starts to fill with a lack of confidence because we fil it or you fill it with always being communicative about everything but also about how you feel and making me feel loved and appreciated. And so that doesn't really leave any room for me to feel less confident.

S: But I guess that's kind of on the relationship side, not necessarily on the sexual side. but I think that I maybe know and have grown to understand and embrace the fact maybe that m My strength isn't my sexuality.

S: And so I don't find my identity in that. I think that my strength is what I give to a relationship in other ways and communication and care and connection in other ways and serving and whatever it is.

F: Yeah. You are re the best boyfriend ever.

S: Thanks babe. yeah. I don't know, just. I think that I came into my sexuality late, later than most people and I was always kind of behind. And my sex life didn't start until my later twenties. And even when it did it wasn't very active. And I didn't really try to make it active. I think I was just seeking solid connection in other ways. And the sexual side of it was a really nice aspect of a relationship but it wasn't necessarily the driving force for me. And so I think, and I knew and I came to realize that through a couple, well, one in particular previous relationship that I wasn't necessarily. I don't know how to say it on par with what one might expect, in terms of how active I am in my sex life and how important or how much drive I have there. And so I guess maybe it's just I don't really put a lot of my identity or our identity in our relationship solely on that. I think it's on many other factors in a more strong fashion than that for me. And I have utmost confidence in that. And while I know that this is a very important part of our relationship, it's not the thing. I know that we have such a great connection and relationship in other ways that it doesn't leave room for me to worry or think about or lose my self confidence really. Which is surprising to me too to think about because I do tend to worry about things a lot. I mean I have challenges with anxiety and worrying about things or overthinking things. But this just has never really been one of them because of how our relationship is. And thanks to you, babe, too, for, like, how you're so communicative and caring and thoughtful and transparent.

F: Thank you, baby. And I'm so glad you shared that, because I think that a lot of men need to hear that message. That your value is not on your sexuality. Or it doesn't have to be. It can be, but it doesn't have to be.

S: Yeah. It doesn't mean that it's wrong to have a lot of value in your sexuality too.

F: Yeah, of course.

S: But, yeah, maybe not the right default.

F: I just think that so many men grow up thinking that that's it. That's it. Like, how much they provide financially and how well they fuck is the definition of being a man, basically, in today's world. And I just think that it's so paradoxically, I think that you are, as I've told you many times, like, the only real man I Ve ever rem Met. because. Because you know yourself and you don't follow the script of what supposedly you should be or whatever. And I mean, we still have a great connection and sexually as well. And actually, the fact that I have sex with other people, and this is another thing that we've talked about, probably eases the pressure that you feel to perform in that way.

S: Yeah. That was one reason why I wanted to bring that up too, is because I think that that's a big factor too, is that, that's what I meant by embracing. I know who I am, and I know what I'm good at. And I know maybe that this is an area that is particularly necessarily strong for me. And so to know that we could.

S: Be in an open relationship and that.

S: You can get that elsewhere. And us to have all of the rest of our relationship to end our sex life, which is also great, but, like, it just takes it off of being a focus in a way that would probably honestly make me worry a little more. Because then I'm leaning on something that I know maybe I'm not as actively driving as much. I don't know. It's just good to have that. s good that you have that. I think that's just a big factor in what makes us work as a open and monogamous partnership. Because, you get that fulfillment, and that allows us to really have the space to enjoy our relationship for what it is. And it's not about what I have not being enough or whatever. It's just different ways for us both to get what we want.

F: Yeah. And you hear this a lot. But that's the beauty of non-monogamy. Right. That you can get different needs met by different people and then not put as much pressure on your primary relationship to be your, how do you say, be all and be all.

S: Get all.

F: Be all get all. Okay, let's go back to some community questions. Someone asked if you are not open because you went through the challenging process of going on dates as a polyman or as an open man. Because men do have it a lot harder, but the thing is that you've never really tried. but yeah, someone was asking if that was the reason why.

S: Yeah, I don't feel like it really calls me to go on dates. Right. The whole process of going on dates and setting up a date and matching with somebody or whatever, I did it because I, wanted to create chances for me to meet somebody. Right. But in and of itself, those initials dates weren't necessarily like things that I really, enjoy just because it's new and, you know, it's kind of awkward and you're getting to know each other and like, for me it would just need to be something a little bit more spunaneous. and I just haven't been in a space where I've felt like I want to actively pursue it. And so I'm not. I mean, we've been on this year long journey over the last year. For example, before that we were in New York. And in New York with so much. Going on around us all the time.

That whenever I had time, all I wanted to do was just be with you or be at home, work on a project, go camping or, you know, see friends. And that takes plenty of time with the limited time that we have anyway. So, yeah, I don't know, it's just not a priority for me. I don't necessarily feel like I'm actively against it necessarily. I'm just very content and happy with what I have. It's not something that I'm probably going to proactively seek out.

F: Yeah, yeah. And I think that has to do with what we were just talking about, that you are also not a very sexual person. So I feel like a lot of, men might want that because they might want the sex, but for you, you're happy with the sex that we're having and you don't feel the need to seek that out. and you know, I've also offered you like threesomes with friends and things like that, and you've said no.

S: Yeah, friends. That doesn't work for me. I think that I, Don't know why. It's not something that necessarily has, I mean, so far. But, I think it would need to be more disconnected for some reason.

F: Yeah. Maybe because of the awkwardness that you were talking about. You're afraid that thinks are going toa get awkward or something?

S: Yeah, hard to say.

F: Yeah. Okay. why don't we just kind of catch up the listeners and let them know where we're at. They will need to listen to our first episode, which I will link in the show notes and then come back to this one if they want the full story because a lot of the questions that they asked are already answered.

S: I just realized we're going to be going in the background of our first one. You can hear the. The M train squeaking by every once in a while.

F: Oh, yeah. Oh my God.

S: Because our apartment was right by there in Brooklyn, in Bushwick. And then we switch fast forward a couple years and we're at a fire pit, up in the mountains with the crackling in the background. Pretty different.

F: Yeah. I think it represents the changes in our lives as well, but yeah, I was thinking about. That because last time we recorded, we had to stop every like 10 minutes or so.

S: We had to pausit and we were like, like, But we made it work and it was fun. Yeah, we missed that place too.

F: Yeah. But, you know, we're glad to be here after spending a whole year traveling and trying to decide where to move to. And this is an awesome place and I wish listeners could see. I'll post some pictures on Instagram, the beautiful, beautiful place we're in. But anyhow, so let's tell the listeners a little bit about our story and where we're at right now.

S: there's more freedom, the less structure. You have continued to be open and that has gone sort of up and down. I think during our journeys too, there were times where you weren't really seeing anybody. and there are times where you've been seeing somebody or, seeing someone, here and there fairly often. So I think it's kind of ebbed and flowed quite a bit.

F: Yeah. And I think the reason why now we don't have the. You can only see people like twice a month or whatever it is because of that. Because sometimes there's months where I don't see anyone and sometimes I want to go on two dates in one week. So it feels like it balances out.

So, yeah, maybe we can tell listeners a little bit about that relationship where this person I was seeing did Something that hurt me and how that happened and also how that created some friction in a relationship as well. Not what he did, but. But just the fact that before things ended with him, I was seeing him a lot and was. I wasn't prioritizing you as much as I should have and how that went down. Anything. It was because of this rule, actually, that we're talking about, because I could only go out with him supposedly once every couple of weeks, or maybe at that point it was once a week. I'm not sure.

S: Yeah, something like that.

F: He was close to someone I'm close to. It was very easy for me to be like, oh, yeah, we'll hang out in a group and he'll be there. Right. So I would be like, in a way, sneaking in dates. And I think there was one time where you and I, we were gonna have dinner with some friends on a Friday, and then the friends canceled. And instead of me asking, okay, well, what are we gonna do? I just told you, like, okay, well, I'm gonna go and see this person then. and also in the context of seeing this person with other people, and I went and did that. I think later on you expressed that it didn't feel good to you, that instead of asking you, okay, what are we doing? Or making plans with you, I just went and did my, own thing. And I think that when you talk to me about it, that was kind of a, wake up call to me of, okay, I'm excited about this new person, but I'm not prioritizing my primary relationship. And I think that, I mean, I was obviously in the big ways, the default.

S: Right. Like the example that you shared of when that happened, there was plans, and then those plans changed, but you still went ahead and sort of made other plans with him, as like, the default sort of filler for that gap in your schedule. Then I think that because it was. Happening more than what we had, like. Technically agreed to, because it was. Yeah, you were running into him, and more social situations because he was in the circle and whatever. Like, you were into it. And so you were looking for more opportunities too. It wasn't like you were sneaking around, but you were seeing him more than I realized. and I think that came to fruition for me maybe. or it came clear to me that you were seeing him more and that this was more than I realized when I started to feel like you were choosing him over me. And then that. Yeah, I think that made me feel like I wasn't a priority in that moment for you.

F: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And by the way, this happened two years ago. So a little fuzzy. Yeah, a little fuzzy. Also, we've come a long way. And also my understanding of my dating life and new relationship energy and all of that is different. So I think something that I learned from that experience is that no matter how excited I am about someone and how much like new relationship energy there is, I need to be prioritizing our relationship. And something that has been helpful for us is that I don't go on a date if you and I haven't gone on a date in a while.

And I usually even wait to ask, after, you know, we've gone on a date just because I know that if I ask you, hey, can I see someone else? When we are in a state where we feel fulfilled in our relationship and happy with our relationship, you're more likely to say yes. And you always sit most so manipulative of you.

S: No, but's again, it's about priority. It's about focus. It's about practicing, showing and illustrating that priority. And when you do that, it leaves less room for me to feel surprised or bad about you asking for something. So it's a system that works.

F: Yeah. And no shame for people who are in non-hierarch relationships. But I do think that when you have a mono open relationship, it does help to have that hierarchy so that the mono person feels prioritized. Yeah. And I think b, you usually like always say yes and when you don't say yes is because of that. It's like okay, well we haven't gone on a date or we have this thing and it's not the right time. So it's not about limiting my freedom with other people. It's about just making sure that we are good in our relationship before expanding and doing anything outside of our relationship. But anyhow, what I really should have done in that moment or in that period of time instead of just making plans with him whenever I could and trying to see him even when it wasn't within or allowed frequency was just to talk to you about it.

S: I just checking In. Yeah, I mean we've learned that many times I think along the way if things change, just checking in shows that there's a priority here. and then I'm not left like wondering or you. Then my imagination isn't going wild or I'm doubting, you know, that you care or anything.

F: Yeah, exactly. I think that what I should have done in that case was just to Say, listen, you know, I'm really enjoying getting to know this person, and I'm feeling like one day a week is not enough. How would you feel if we change that? Or, you know, and sometimes it's hard to say those things because I didn't want you to think that. I don't know that I was like so much into this person that it was threatening our relationship or anything like that. But I think that I've learned with time that I can just be more honest about how I feel about other people with you. And I think even within that relationship, normally you don't ask much and we'll get to talk about the don'as on t tell dynamic that we have. But in that relationship, I do remember you checking in and being like, hey, so you've been seeing this person a lot. Like, tell me a little bit about how you feel.

S: Yeah, I was curious about how you feel about, in terms of your feelings for this person more than just like it being a friends with benefits thing or whatever. Right. And I could sense that there was something more here. And you were honest. I think, if I recall correctly, that you were having some feelings. you were still self aware of the fact that it was a new relationship and that that was a factor. but I appreciated that you were able to share that and be transparent with me about that. and at the same time, it wasn't necessarily easy to hear that either. but the fact that we were talking about it instead of me being surprised by it or something like that was very, ideal. and what was helpful.

F: Yeah, I think at that point I had already learned my lesson that the new relationship energy fades, at least in my case. And indeed with this person it lasted a little bit longer, but then it faded. you know, with, with the thing that happened that we'll get to talk about in a second. But I think that something that's special about our relationship and that I think that other people would benefit from is to understand that even though we haven't done aontel dynamic in which I come back from a date and like, I rarely talk about it, or maybe I say, oh, yeah, I went to this restaurant that was good. And that's even something that we didn't do before. And, that now it's like more but before, literally I would just come back and it was as if never happen. But that doesn't mean that you are not going to know if something big is happening in my life or if like a person is becoming more significant. Or and this leads into, the upcoming story. If I'm hurting, right. And this person I was seeing did something that hurt me and that made me not want to see him anymore. At first, I, you know, went days without telling you, but I was hurting, and it was very difficult for me. And then I think one day I just, like, burst into tears, seemingly out of nowhere for you. And then I explained to you what had happened. This person that I was seeing is someone that you knew, someone that had been at our art place at, dinners and parties and things like that. So even though we had a don’t ask, until I'd come back from a date with him and I wouldn't talk about it, it's not like you didn't.

S: I knew who it was, and I was comfortable with that, and I saw him around, and that was fine. It was just, we didn't talk about that part of him and you.

F: Yeah, yeah. But I just didn't feel comfortable telling you that I was hurt by this person because I didn't know if that would hurt you, that I was hurt by Mo meeting her, by this other person. And I'm actually curious to hear why it didn't hurt you. But, when I finally burst into tears and told you about it, you actually kind of sided with him. But you also, as per usual, gave me the support that I needed and, like, help me and made me feel better. And it was really good for me to feel like I didn't have to hide this from you anymore, and I could just be in my hurt with you and be transparent and not feel like, again, like I was hiding.

S: Yeah, I mean, one thing is to talk about a relationship and hear details about, you know, your feelings for somebody that's active, that's going on, and sort of picturing that and having those images start to form. and that's different than, what goes through my head and how I think about it. When you're talking about somebody who hurts you.

That doesn't stir up feelings of, oh, this person has something I should be jealous of, or it doesn't create images in my head of you guys connecting or being intimate or whatever. And so it's just not something that really affects me, like hearing about details of a date that you just got back from do or might. Right. and in that moment, I mean, you're my partner. I just want you to be okay. And at the same time, I'know I did side with him a little bit. I can't remember about what, but I do remember that there was some details that I was, maybe shedding some more light on from my perspective as a guy.

F: Yeah, and you know, it was helpful and I appreciate it. For me, like, even though I wish you would have sided with meeah, I.

S: That was the best move.

F: No, I mean, I know. I actually think it was a testament to how awesome you are because you are such a fair person and like, you are empathetic. And, I don't know, it did help me see things in a different light.

S: I think it's also like a chance for us to feel our relationship is like when we're talking about something like that, that you're hurt and I'm helping you through or I'm comforting you or whatever. It's just another way for us to be together and to be a relationship and to, connect. And you. For some couples, I'm sure hearing about details of a date that they just have can also too. But I don't want you to be hiding something that you're hurting about from me. That feels terrible. That's just, a very clear. For me, I could understand why it might be different for some people, but.

F: Yeah, I think the differ is that maybe some people would be heard by realizing how much their partner cared for this other person.

S: Yeah, I think that that can be a factor too. But I guess it's just. It's not active. It's in the past. If it's something that they did to hurt you, then it's like, well.

F: But in theory, my feelings for that person are in the present. Right. But I think part of the reason why it didn't matter that much to you, it is because as we talked about, we had already had that conversation and you already knew that I had some feelings for this person.

S: It wasn't a surprise. Right?

F: It wasn't a surprise.

S: That's true. It happened already. We've had a conversation and we've been communicative, throughout this process. And so I was not caught off guard by how much you were feeling for this person. And if I was, if I had been caught off guard, I think that maybe that would have been different. That could have been a surprise. And that could have been harder for me to be for you there for you in the moment. I don't know. But I do think, yeah, I think you're right. It comes down to communicating and avoiding surprises is so key in an open, monogamous relationship, is that communication frequently and being transparent.

F: Yeah, that's a really good Point. but, yeah, I think that with the don´t ask don´t tell, I think people would think that that means that we're disconnected and that we don't really talk about deep stuff. But the interesting part about our approach is that we don't talk about the artificial stuff. We don't talk about what I did on a date or whatever else, but we talk about the deep stuff. You do ask me, okay, is this person meaningful to you? I can'tell. You if I'm hurt. So I feel like that's a good framework for people who want to try the don´t ask don´t tell. It doesn't mean that you can't say things that you feel like. If you don't say them, they disconnect you from your partner. Treead lightly. But also, I'm sure that if your partner is as awesome as Seth is, they wouldn't want you hurting and them not knowing. Right. So if you're going through stuff with your secondary partner. Sure. Like, or someone else you are seeing. Sure. Talk to your friends, talk to your therapist, talk to other people if you know that your partner might be affected. But if you feel like it, it's important enough. So I think it's also important to have the space to share those things, because if I couldn't, and in the times that I haven't, because in the past, I didn't. I did feel disconnected from you.

S: Yeah. I think it's a good framework. Sharing unnecessary details about the date, less important for us. And that seems to work well. So that seems maybe that's a good framework for just talking about the meaningful changes in terms of the dynamics of the relationships that you're in and how things may be changing so that there's no surprises down the line. But I think the other thing is maybe, timing. And when you're sharing those things, too, if you were to, say, come back from a date and that's the first thing you talk to me about. Right. Because it's on your mind and fresh or whatever. That's going to be hard for me to hear in that moment. Right. Because you're coming back. All I want to do is just connect with you again and really, honestly not go into any details about it. Sure. Sometimes we'll talk about, like you said, like, oh, it went to a nice restaurant or whatever. But we're not talking about things that you talked about together with this person or feelings that you felt or. Or anything like that. because that's not something so far. And we were just talking about it today that I feel like will be helpful for me. What's helpful for me is just feeling your affection for me and your love for me. And you do that really well, which is one reason why this is so successful for us. M. And just kind of swoop back into normal. Us, together, evening, low pressure, chill. And then later, a day or two later or whatever, maybe then there's time to talk about, some more details about, like, if something changed.

F: Yeah. We were even talking on the way here about it because I just came back from a trip where I saw someone and I was expressing how sometimes I feel like I want to share a little bit more because that helps me be connected. I did ask, okay, can I talk about the things I talked to this person about? And you said something along the lines of, like, nothing that might sound like you guys are a couple or something like that.

S:Yeah. I typically mean obviously, I know, because we talk about the dynamics of your relationship and if. If it's serious, if you have feelings, things like this. But, at the same time it's a date or it's a trip together or whatever it is. So I know that, there's elements there that we're not talking about it. I just don't want to focus on it. And it doesn't help me to focus on it or hear about it. And I know that it also. But you've said challenging a little bit for you to not share those things because that's your default way of connecting with me, is to share memories. And that's default way for us as humans to connect with each other, experiences together, talk about our ideas or thoughts about people, around us that we experience. but yeah, I think we've kind of. I mean, what we were talking about earlier is kind of aligning on if we need to change that down the road, maybe we can change that. But for now, I feel like it's more important for us after you come back from a date or a trip or something like that, is to just sort of settle back in nicely into our regular lives and making sure that we feel and communicate each other's love for each other. And then after some time goes by, a weekend, pick back up maybe some other conversations about more updates about how things have changed.

F: Yeah. And I think what we also talked about is that, sure, I would prefer for me to share, but I think part of it, actually also comes because, yes, because I want to connect with you, but also because sharing makes it feel a little bit like it's okay. Like, I think the silence sometimes might make it feel like it's not okay. And actually, one of the questions from the listeners was, do you ever feel guilty when you date other people? And I do feel like that's something that I did. I felt guilty at first back when we started opening up, and I thought I didn't feel guilty anymore. But then today when we were talking about that, I was like, actually, I think also, I want to talk about it. Because if we talk about it, it feels like, okay, it's okay. We're good, you know? But I actually don't think that I need to talk about it. I think that I would prefer it, but I would want to talk about it to connect with you. And if talking about it makes you feel less connected with me because it puts you in, a weird headspace, then I don't need to talk about it. I can talk about it with my girlfriends. I can talk about it with tons of people. I can journal about it. I can even put it on the podcast. You know, Like, I can do many other things.

S: Yeah.

F: but I think there's an important caveat that I'm not polyamorous. So far, at least. So if you know this person I'm seeing, it's a casual thing. He doesn't live here, which is why the trip. But, you know, if I was to start dating someone for our prolonged periods of time, like, if I dated, I think I've never really dated someone more than, like, I don't know, maybe four months maximum, maybe less than that, maybe three months. Well, maybe this person a bit longer, but I barely see him. But, you know, if I was dating someone like, once a week for many months, I would feel like, okay, I do need to share more because this person is becoming more significant in my life. And then it would be a different conversation, which I think you expressed, that would not be your preference. But I'm not looking for that either. And we just know that it'll be a conversation if this ever happens. Right. so I think it would be a lot more difficult if I was polyamorous, not to share.

S: Yeah, I think that makes sense if it was more recurring, more polyamorous, more part of your life. But, yeah, for now, what we have in this way makes sense.

F: well, maybe we can talk a little bit about one of the reflections that we had as I just came back from this trip. So I was seeing this person while Seth was.

S: Well, I was on a work trip.

F: On a work trip. So instead of him Getting his solo time, which is what he really likes to get. When I go on a date, he was working, on a work trip. So, I think, yeah, I don't know, baby, if you want to share some reflections around that.

S: Yeah, I think what I was realizing was normally when you have a date or, anything like this, I get this benefit, which has been key for us, as I sort of get used to this and work out this, way of avoiding feeling jealous or anything like that. It's important. What I've found is to focus on the positive and what I get as a result of it. Instead of getting lost in the spiral of picturing what's going on or, ah, feeling envious or anything like that. I think it's really just about training. Your brain to, think about what actually matters, which is how it's impacting you, because it's not impacting me in a negative way. When you go on these dates, you come back, you're fully, well recharged, you're feeling good. And if I'm able to focus on that too, that's great. And that just makes it easier and easier because then what's associated in my mind with being open and with you going out on dates is a positive experience for me. And that builds and builds, which is why we've been able to be more and more flexible with being open. And so I was thinking about that, and I know not everybody is like me in the sense that they want to be and spend that time alone when they have the chance, but I think that it can still translate, I talked a little bit about this in the first podcast we did, but I focused a lot on it being about getting that time alone. And I think it can be anything. It could be anything that you could use that you or ask for or do when, your partner's on a date or even after they come back from a date, is doing something that you don't normally get to do because it's maybe not something that your partner likes to do as much as you do and you can ask that of them.

F: Yeah. So now we're going to watch the Sci Fi.

S: Yeah. We were like, what should we do this time? I was like, oh, well, we don't always get to watch as much Sci Fi as I would like, and I'm a huge nerd. And so I was like, well, maybe I'll ask this time. And when we get home after the camping trip is like, watch one of my favorite Sci Fi that you probably wouldn't watch. Otherwise.

F: Yeah. And we've never had to balance this out that much because, as you said, you get your solo time while I go on a date. So it feels like we both get something usually. But I do think that this question of how do you balance things out in a mono open relationship is interesting. And I think this could be a way because, you know, me coming back from this trip, I'm like, of course I'll, watch the sci fi with you or whatever you want to do's I'll do. Like, I just went on this trip and, you. Obviously, I'm my own person or whatever. But it does feel like it was a gift that you gave me to put yourself through maybe a little bit of discomfort. And I'm curious if, like, you felt. I mean, you said that you felt fine, but.

S: Yeah, I wouldn't say I felt any discomfort. But what I did realize is I didn't have that positive experience either. And so I didn't feel like we were making a step forward necessarily and continuing to make this a positive experience. And so that's why we ended up. Well, maybe we do something. Okay. Maybe it'll be, a movie or something.

F: Yeah. And I'm happy to do whatever you'd like me to do. because again, it does feel like a gift, from you to me, even if it wasn't uncomfortable. But just, it's a gift that you allow this relationship structure even at times when you don't get something like this time around. And I think that, you know, for other people who maybe are a little bit more social than you are, maybe the nice thing that they do is that they go out with their friends while their partner is on a date. It doesn't have to be something that their partner gives to them. It can just be, as you said, whatever positive experience that they can focus on instead of their partner being on a date.

S: Yeah.

F: Well, baby, this has been great. I'm sure it's gonna be so helpful to so many men out there, to so many people in mono open relationships. What would be your last advice to someone in a, relationship similar to our or someone in your position?

S: I think it's really about focusing and maybe even being a little bit selfish in the sense that it's about what makes you feel good and about what affects you. And jealousy is something that is in our heads, but really when you focus on just what actually impacts you and you know, when you come home from a date, you're not bringing any negativity with you. You're bringing energy with you. And so what actually impacts me is a positive experience. it's just about getting past that default tendency to think about what the other person is doing without you and, without you present and how you feel as a result of that. But if you base your feelings and try to focus on what is in front of you and what you're getting out of your relationship and the connection that you feel when you are together and all of those things, I do think that it all kind of comes down to that. We are naturally wired and built to feel that jealousy. But that is just a muscle that you can train and work out. Eventually. You don't even have to think about it. You're not worried about it, you're not thinking about it. It's just a normal part of your relationship. So I guess if it's a struggle early on, as long as you're able to talk through it, it will get easier.

F: Usually, yeah. And I think that for you, it's also easier not to think about it again because of our, don´t ask don't tell dynamic and because of how infrequent in general my dating is. yeah.

S: And it's not about being ignorant or blocking out so that we don't think it's happening. Right. It's just about focusing on the things that matter.

F: Thank you so much for sharing, baby. I love you and appreciate you doing this. And you are a wise man.

S: I love you, babe. I'm so proud of what you're doing with this, and, I'm happy to go on this journey with you. Thanks for hosting me again. Thanks for bringing me back.

F: Thank you for supporting me.