Alex: One of the things that I love that [00:01:00] she says all the time is like, listen, just because I'm not okay with it today doesn't mean I'm not gonna be okay with it in the future. As a matter of fact, I probably will be.

Fer: Yeah,

Alex: it's just right now. I need it to go in this order, and that helps me understand and helps me from getting frustrated too, honestly.

Fer: Hi everyone. Welcome to Polycurious. I am Fer, relationship coach and host of this podcast, and today I'm talking with Didi and Alex. This is part one of our conversation, and it's mostly focused on couples play swinging, et cetera. The second part of our conversation, which will come out in a couple of weeks, or it might already be there by the time you're listening to this, will be all about MFMT threesomes, two men, one woman, and they have such great stories and tips around that.

It was a really fun episode, so [00:02:00] I highly, highly encourage you to go check that out. Didi and I connected actually initially through Instagram. Her Instagram is ethically non-monogamous, and I will make sure to link that in the show notes. And she was a fan of Polycurious and happened to be in Denver. So I got to meet her in person and she's super lovely.

She was married until she was in her mid thirties, I believe, and that's when she began exploring and she thought, okay, this is going to be my slut era, my hot girl summer, whatever you wanna call it. And then she found Alex. Alex has been in the lifestyle as he calls it, for 13 years, and when he started dating Didi, he was married to someone that he had been exploring with for a long time, whereas Didi was just discovering this world.

So today we talk about what happens when one person in their relationship [00:03:00] has a lot more experience in non-monogamy and the other person doesn't. As someone who was in this situation myself, where I had some experience with it and my partner said didn't, I definitely felt like I points, I wanted to push things to go farther, but it's also really important to respect the pace of the person that's new to non-monogamy because it is a lot to take in.

There's a lot that you need to learn, and a lot of the lessons for Didi and Alex have been around communicating. Not just between themselves, but also in their exploration with other couples. Because it just seemed like every time there was something that didn't quite go the way they expected it to go.

And I think that's very common, right? When there's four people in the dynamic, there's a lot of communication that needs to happen. There's a lot of preferences and insecurities and considerations that need [00:04:00] to take place for each person in the dynamic, right? So if you really wanted to do it right, there's a lot of things that can go wrong.

So if you are in a couple where you are exploring with other couples, I think this episode is going to be very helpful for you to know all the possible things that can go wrong, how to better communicate around that, et cetera. And today, Didi and Alex tell us a story about a couple that was kind of in the middle of the plot.

At the time we had this conversation, so I actually recorded a follow up with them, and that's available on my Patreon. If you want to go check that out after you listen to this episode there you can also find other bonus content, a lot of writing. And lastly, you also get access to our monthly meetup. The next one happening on Wednesday, June 11th, will be about NRE and your relationship [00:05:00] energy.

You can be a free Patreon member to join, so make sure to check that out if you're interested in joining. Before we start, I also want to tell you that I was actually interviewed by Didi and her friend for her new podcast that is coming out anytime. So it is called The Non Monogamous Spectrum, and we had a really, really fun conversation.

If you want to stay tuned for that conversation and for other episodes from Didi's Podcast. Make sure to search for the non-monogamous spectrum, and if you can't find the podcast because it might not be out yet, by the time you listen to this episode, make sure to follow Didi on Instagram at ethically non-monogamous.

Of course, you can also follow me at Polycurious 

Podcast where I will be promoting the episode as well. Okay, guys, here's my interview with Didi and Alex.

Didi. And Alex, welcome to Polycurious. I'm so excited to have this conversation. I actually [00:06:00] rarely interview people that I've met through the internet and even though Didi, you and I initially met through the internet, we've met in person now.

Didi: Yeah.

Fer: And I was just like, she's amazing. She has such a warm energy to her. And also I love how you are being very open about your journey on social media and how you're aiming to. Show people that there's many ways of doing relationships and, and I think we, we share that mission. And then Alex, great meeting you.

I've heard great things about you.

Alex: Thank you. Likewise. We're excited to be here.

Fer: Okay, well let's start from the beginning. I mean, you're both based in Phoenix and I think that you haven't been together that long, like maybe a, a year.

Alex: We were just talking about that.

Didi: Yeah, we're going on a a year since the day we met.

So we met through a friend that I met on field. [00:07:00] So a guy I met on field went on a couple dates with, we were more like, oh my gosh, you're cool, but more of a friends thing. And he is like, well, awesome. You're getting into this lifestyle. I've got a group of people that I want you to start meeting because I think you're awesome and you'd fit in.

And then he. Inter introduced us. Alex was married and in a polyamorous relationship, so our buddy introduced us actually over Instagram and we just started talking and Alex invited me out to dinner. Yeah. And then that's where it all started and we started dating with him as as married. And I had just gotten divorced a few months before that, but had been separated for almost a year.

So I was ready to just kind of date and I wasn't looking for anything serious, but was very intentional about all my relationships. There needs to be a connection and it's more than necessarily just like hooking up. Right. But we [00:08:00] just hit it off really, really well.

Fer: Yeah.

Didi: I was very, I guess what respectful of Yeah.

Your boundaries. And I said, this is great. Like it's actually works for me because I enjoyed the time I got to spend with you. And it was like very connecting. And when we were together, we were together. And then when we weren't, we just had, you know, when about our lives. You

Alex: Well, yeah.

Didi: That's kind of how I a hundred percent explain it.

People were like, how do you do that? I don't understand.

Alex: Well, and for, for me, the interesting thing was, is when our buddy introduced us, um, he introduced it very much as a, Hey, I met this super cool girl. Um, she wants a threesome. I know your experience in that. 'cause I've been in, I, so just a little background, I've been, he was pimping me out.

He was pimping her out

Didi: to the guy.

Alex: Yeah. And I've been in the lifestyle for, for, you know, 14, 15 years and a few years as a single guy at the beginning. And he knows that. And we've had experiences the past together. And he was just like, Hey, you know, and so that's how he introduced it. But for whatever reason, when she and I started [00:09:00] chatting.

It, there was something about the way she presented the situation. 'cause you immediately said, well, that's, this is not actually what I want. And I asked him offline, I was like, Hey, do you mind if I just like chat with her offline outta respect for him, you know, since he made the introduction. Mm-hmm. I didn't want to think like, I was kind of trying to steal, you know, steal his girl or whatever.

And, um, that's when we started talking and immediately we're like, let's, you know, let's, let's meet up. And that's kind of how it started.

Fer: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I definitely want to hear more about that threesome that you wanted to, to make happen. We actually talked about that when we met. Yes. Uhhuh, just for listeners, we had a beautiful walk around Washington Park and um Yeah, and we talked about that, about you wanting to have a threesome with two men, if I'm correct.

Yes. Right. Because that's another thing, you're not bisexual, which

Didi: right.

Fer: One would think that that's more common. But actually I do find that most non-monogamous women are either [00:10:00] bisexual or bicurious or whatever. Mm-hmm. But anyhow, like when, often, when people think about threesomes, when they're entered into non-monogamy, they often think about, what is it, FFFM threesome.

Didi: Yeah. Like an FMF. Yeah. Or

Fer: fff, MFMF or FFMF

Didi: for female and one m for the male. It's usually, yeah, two women and one guy. In the situation, and for me, I'm like, no, I, I'm into guys. I want two guys at one.

Fer: Yeah. Yeah.

Didi: That was like the fantasy. And that's what happened is our friend had asked, he's like, oh, okay, well what is one of your fantasies?

And I go. Well, a threesome with two guys. And he goes, oh, well I think make that happen. I'm like, okay.

Fer: Right. So it wasn't, and he framed it like, oh, Didi's looking for a threesome when hundred percent. He was more like him asking, yeah,

Didi: he was going afterwards to the like, behind my back, not behind my back, but like saying, Hey, uh, this girl, like, I'm gonna

Alex: introduce.

She's [00:11:00] really cool. I think this can happen.

Fer: Well, because it's rare to find women who are looking for that or want that or, you know, and also you, I was like,

Alex: we can talk about that more. I don't

Fer: think, well, we we'll talk about that. We'll talk about that more for sure. But yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm one of those like, not saying that they don't, they don't exist, but again, like the common, when people hear threesome, the common,

Alex: they

Fer: think two girls are structure.

Yeah, exactly.

Didi: There's more stigma around the two guys. Like, not, maybe not stigma, but it's just not like something people have been presented as like a norm.

Alex: Well, because they. The girl's not supposed to want to have sex with two guys. Like, and the, and a guy. True. Being a guy and having a penis, it's okay to fantasize about two of women.

Which, which the funny thing is, right, as I've talked to my friends that are not in a lifestyle over the years that have lived, like, lived through me vicariously sexually, they've been like, have you had a threesome with two girls? I'm like, yeah, of course. And they're like, well, you mean like more than one?

I'm like, yeah, multiple. And they're like, how was it? I'm like, it's a lot of work. You know? I'm like, it, [00:12:00] it can be great, but it's a lot of work. Like it's not what you think. And it's funny as I've. Had other friends that have made that transition and a lifestyle and had their first one, they'll come back to me and they'll be like, God, you were right, man.

That was, that was right. Like I was worried about the one or worried about my spouse, or like, and that's kind of can happen a lot in those situations, you know?

Fer: Yeah. Because what we see in porn is the two women pleasuring the The man, right? Yeah. And the man doesn't have to do that much, but in reality, yeah.

If you're having a trium with two women, like they both wanna be pleasured, so you gotta pleasure two people, right? Yeah. So yeah, that makes total sense. But I love Didi, that you were open about that even though you didn't specifically request it and it was more answering a question. But given that you were also very new.

Right? So for context, Alex had been in the scene as you said, 13, 14 years, and you were new, right? Like Didi, how long have you been exploring?

Didi: I just had just started, my divorce was kind of, it was [00:13:00] final last year in November. I was very upfront with people right off the bat. I'm dating just to have fun.

I'm gonna be very open about the fact that like, you're not the only person. The one guy I started dating from field two, we hung out with each other a lot. Like our whole thing was, okay, we're friends with benefits, but obviously there's still, even if you're friends with benefits, jealousy can come up and.

Somebody catches feelings. So in that case, that's happening too. And I wasn't ready till I got my, my divorce finalized to be on any apps outside of field, right? Because that's way more public. So I go, Hey, I'm gonna start like dating. Like, I'm not even there yet. Like once that's done, like I'm gonna be on Hinge, I'm gonna be on whatever, I'm gonna be going on dates.

And I was like, you better be prepared for this because that's what this relationship's really gonna look like. So we had a lot of conversations about that, which was like, yeah, yeah, I'm on board, I'm on board. No problem. Of course, when it came down to [00:14:00] it, it was much more difficult for him to actually like participating because he's like, no, I, I don't actually wanna be in this open relationship.

Fer: Yeah.

Didi: So I just continued though, um, dating and then of course with Alex. Then it was like we started building this relationship and. He was like, I want you to be my girlfriend. I wasn't even comfortable like I was like, you can call me that. I'm not gonna call you my boyfriend though. I would just to be very honest, I'm like, I'm not.

Alex: Well, that's where we started having a conversation about primary and secondaries too. It was like, well, you're the secondary. Like that kind of,

Didi: you kept, yeah, you were, we started, you know, there's all the terminology that, like some people use, some people I get don't like to use the, the labels and their, uh, relationship anarchists, but I, I actually find labels really helpful because I think communication is so important and like the more understanding of what someone's kind of looking for those labels can be helpful.

And so I was your [00:15:00] secondary and at first I was like, okay, well you're definitely someone I'm dating and when I'd go on dates. I would even tell people up front, I'm like, Hey, I'm, I'm non-monogamous by the way. I'm currently dating a married guy and that's not gonna change. So like, if you wanna keep dating me mm-hmm.

Know that I have this other relationship

Fer: after, after that ex, that experience that you had with the friends, with benefits that you thought was good. Yeah, and I think that that's a common experience. Like I've experienced it as well and something that I learned and I don't know how you feel. You know, no matter how upfront you are about it.

Sometimes if whoever you're dating has more of a monogamous mindset, they can. You know, say they're okay with it. Yeah. But not actually be okay with it. So what I've learned is you shouldn't just pay attention to their words. Mm-hmm. And like what they're saying, but like how they're acting, right? Yeah. And like if you see that they're getting a little bit too much, too attach or you see that they get uncomfortable when you talk about [00:16:00] your other partners, then even if they say it's totally okay, it's totally okay.

Yeah. You might have to be the person that says or says it or not, you know? Yeah. Because again, if you say like, oh, I noticed you're not okay with this. They might say like, no, no, no, I'm totally okay. So like,

Didi: right.

Fer: I had, I had it happen to me that I had to break up with someone mm-hmm. Without like really telling them, Hey, I'm breaking up with you because you are too attached to me.

Because I knew they would deny it. Right. But just by the way they acted, I could tell. Right. Yeah. So sometimes you kind of have to make that decision for people. But I do think that. Saying it upfront like I'm dating all these people, really helps. Mm-hmm. And not just when you don't want them to find out any surprises, but in general, I feel like we should normalize talking about our relationships with other people.

Didi: I agree. For example, monogamous people that are dating. Until they commit to one person, they are dating non monogamously. They just don't talk about it. You know, most people are Yeah, having multiple relations ships at a [00:18:00] time, but they don't feel like they're betraying anyone in their terms or like that they're being non-monogamous just because they're like, well, I haven't committed to anyone yet.

So, and with this friends with benefits, we would talk through things and it'd be like, I would always say, Hey, whenever the, like, if this becomes too much, you need to tell me. You know? And like you're saying, they're, they might be in denial too, at, in d different phases of it. Um, and actually in their case, they were fine with non-monogamy.

They wanna have a primary and then they, they

Fer: want and they wanted you to be their primary.

Didi: Yeah. Like, or if they're gonna be in a non-monogamous relationship, for them to feel safe, they need that primary person. Right. Like you started catching feelings and you said, I do want this to progress further.

And I had to be honest and say. I don't see that happening. I don't see that with you.

Alex: Ironically. Now we're friends. Could have been

Didi: Oh yeah. He's met him because I'm still friends with him. Yeah.

Alex: Yeah.

Didi: And he [00:19:00] be, well, he's, so, my, my best friend's boyfriend and him got along so well that they're like, hang out all the time.

Alex: And now I obviously hang out with her best friend and her boyfriend and he's the best friend of the boyfriend. So like we've all like gotten to be friends over the last, last several months. Yeah.

Didi: So

Alex: they, but a couple times it's come up in conversation where he has actually looked at you and said, well, oh

Didi: yeah.

Alex: You know, like where you could tell, you know, he has brought it up again that, you know, I just couldn't handle it and kind of almost admitted that a little bit. Yeah. You know, and so,

Didi: yeah. He even has had full on conversations with us about

Alex: it. Oh, we were texting this morning.

Didi: Oh God no, but I meant about,

Alex: oh, about us.

Oh hundred percent. About us, about

my

Didi: relationship. So funny.

Alex: He wanted to, I think, you know, Hey, I, I like you. Yeah. You know, I, I, you know, I care for Didi still and I want you guys to be happy. Kind of that kind of stuff. Yeah. So it's good.

Fer: That's nice. I love when those relationships can transition into friendship

Alex: and if we want to go the other way.

[00:20:00] When I first started dating Didi, like her and my wife were starting to be friends. Oh. We were, you know, they were like hanging out and they'd gone to a couple things together, alone and

Didi: yeah, we had girls' night.

Alex: She would even tell me that she was very comfortable with Didi 'cause Didi was super respectful.

She kinda felt like my previous girlfriend crossed a line sometimes. And that's why I ended up ending it and, you know, um, when I did, because I was like, I, I need to. Kinda like you said, I needed to draw that line and I thought it was getting a little bit blurred, but with Dee, that wasn't the case at all.

Mm-hmm. Um, fast forward, you know, then when she and I ended up breaking up, which had, you know, roots of years and years of us being married and realizing that, you know, might not work out, um, they obviously stopped communicating, but because she was triggered by that, you know.

Didi: Yeah. But she also, she almost gave me her blessing when they split up and said like, I heard you're stepping away.

'cause I didn't know that their relationship was anywhere [00:21:00] near that. I thought they were in this very stable, healthy relationship. And so I was actually kind of upset. I was like, this is not what I signed up for.

Fer: So you didn't sign up for the drama or for, for being with someone in a problematic relationship at

Didi: that point?

Yeah, absolutely. Or just to be there, like, to be there when someone's going through a separation and a divorce that takes up a lot of energy. It changes your life during that time period. And I was like, I don't know if I can be there for that. Like, I don't know if I have it in me to support someone going through that and what that will, that effect will have on me.

So I wasn't sure. I was like, I have to step away. And you, they also initially had separated with the intention of separating for six months and then deciding if they were gonna get divorced. And I was like, I can't be there while you're figuring it out so I can be there while you're married. That was right.

Yeah. And I was like, yeah, I can be there while you're married because that's a decision you're making. You guys are in this like gray period, so. [00:22:00] But it was really quick. Like that went out the window within like a week. They were like, no, this is stupid. Like we've, we've been in this like three years too long.

We just need to like get divorced.

Alex: And, and I too didn't want Didi to think that me stepping away from that relationship had anything to do with her. You know, with Didi, like this had been going on for years and we were trying, and I was, you know, we had even decided, you know, we had given a list self like, Hey, we're gonna go until this date and if things aren't better by then, you know, whatever we had, it is one of those things where I, I didn't, I, I did, I guess I didn't think that I was bringing Didi into that kind of situation 'cause I didn't feel like that.

But when the straw breaks, it breaks. Right. Or, you know, camel's back break, it breaks and that's kind of what, what happened and how it felt like, but I didn't want her to be

Fer: Yeah.

Alex: On that. And we went through a few months of, of, of kind of some hard

Fer: Yeah.

Alex: Honest conversations about, we came up with this like analogy of like, Hey, I'm flying an airplane and, and although I can see what's coming ahead and I've [00:23:00] got the radars and I know I can handle the turbulence, she's in the back throwing up.

'cause the plane's, you know, going all over the place. And she's like, where the heck are we heading?

Didi: Yeah.

Alex: And so I said, you know, why don't I just land the plane and let you get off and I'm gonna go fly to where I need to fly. You know, go through all the stuff. I'll be back for you and hopefully you're here.

You know, like I, I can't. Mm-hmm. I, I, you know, and, and that's kind of how we had to deal with it for a little bit.

Fer: So you separated for a, for a few months, weeks. We,

Didi: we weren't really separated at all. It just was, he started throwing out, like the primary word way before I was ready to even talk about that.

And I go, I'm not in a position where like, I even feel safe. I was also scared that for him to jump into his marriage, to, to relationship with me was even the smart thing to do. I was like, do you need to go date? Like, I was worried for myself, like I am, I been with someone for 13 years, I was trying to go date and like kind of have that this period that I'd never had before.

I'm like, are [00:24:00] you gonna have regrets if you don't go do that? And you're like, well, I got to be

Fer: well. But yeah, he had been non monogamous for the, for so many years. So he had been,

Didi: yeah, he had, and he'd been, I don't know, we bring that up married before. Yeah. And so he had like, he's been divorced before, he was ex ex Mormon, so you can share that in a second.

But Alex has his, like, whole Mormon life where he got married, had kids, um, and then, but after that divorce is kind of when you did your whole, I'm figuring out who I am without religion.

Fer: Yeah. And that's where you were at.

Didi: Yeah. So that's where I was kind of just starting. And I kind of would point out, I know you had that time, but that was still like over a decade ago.

I'm like, I don't know if you wanna do that again. Like, I don't know if you wanna go there again.

Alex: I had at that point, fallen in love with Didi already. Mm-hmm. Like I, or my heart was head open, turn I, and what an amazing woman she is. And so to me, like as much as I thought, yeah, logically, maybe we shouldn't, we even talked about this, like, maybe we should take some time and this and that.[00:25:00] 

Yeah. We always kind of found ourselves again. And, and I think in, in the back of my head, it was just like, geez, this, this woman's amazing. She's incredible. Why do I have to follow societal norms and, and wait a year, you know, or whatever like. If it makes sense to, to continue this. Yeah. We were battling all of that.

We, we battled through that for a little while.

Fer: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it wasn't that you actually separated. It was more that Didi, you were trying to create some distance and Alex was, well, I'm kind of ready to dive in.

Didi: Yeah. I think that was more it through these things where I'm like, almost wanna be as cautious, but it also doesn't make sense.

Like, I don't get to choose when I find someone, I don't get to choose when I fall in love, but. I guess I have these like fears,

Fer: protective mechanisms. Maybe because of your previous relationship, I'm assuming that, uh, you said you were married 13 years or so, right? Mm-hmm.

Didi: Yeah.

Fer: So, so you probably were also being careful not to fall into another dynamic.

Obviously very different [00:26:00] because you guys are non monogamous, but still you were enjoying your freedom and scared that if you committed to someone, you might end up in another situation like that, I imagine.

Didi: Yeah. 'cause with my, um, ex-husband, like I just jumped into that relationship very quickly. Again, it happened, it was like unplanned.

I would even joke with my ex about it. I was trying to have like my, you know, I was trying to snotty face my snotty Yeah.

Fer: Sweat

Didi: face. Yeah. Like it was summertime and I was like, because I'd only been in serious relationships before and like even before him, I'd been with a boyfriend for like two or three years and.

That was during college. So it was like, I've always been a relationship girl. And I was like, yes, this is my summer. And I like, barely, like, it was like it lasted, well,

Alex: you said

Didi: it to me about a month. And I was like, and then I met him trying to be like, it was like, Ooh, this is gonna be fun. Like, and I went from hooking up Yeah.

To like, oh, 13 years later. So I was like, yeah, yeah. I think you're, you're [00:27:00] not wrong. It's a protective mechanism of like being afraid that that's gonna happen again.

Alex: Well just, I was gonna say, you even used that the first time we texted.

Didi: Mm-hmm.

Alex: Separately. You said, I'm in my slut. I'm like in my slut face.

It's literally, you use those words. I remember reading that going my

Didi: ethical,

Alex: and I was like, and I was like, perfect. Like everyth was great, you know? Yeah. So, but no, but for me, I mean, I'm coming off of my second failed marriage, if you wanna look at it that way. Right. And so, like most of the people in my life were telling me.

The last thing you need to do right now is date. Just take some time, figure this out, whatever, da da, da, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So I'm having all those, like people telling me that, obviously. Mm-hmm. I've got kids that are involved and I'm talking to them about things and they're like, just dad, same thing.

Like,

Fer: how old are they?

Alex: 17 to 25. Right. So, mm-hmm. Um, and I have a great relationship with all of 'em. And so that whole thing and, and it, it was just one of those things where I guess at the end of the day, we both realized that, [00:28:00] that we're special. You know, I realized how special this one is, and I, I just realized that, that it was something that I would regret more in life if I didn't give it a chance.

And so for me that kind of was an easy decision after a little bit to just say, Hey, I'm willing to give it a shot. Especially because we've also talked about. How we can continue to,

Fer: to be in your slot face.

Alex: Yeah. Well continue to, to, to kind of live in this, live in this area and how we make that work out for us, which has been a whole different ball of wax, you know?

Didi: Yeah.

Alex: Um,

Didi: we're still figuring that, right.

Alex: Because we're still figuring that out, you know? And because I don't, in, in certain ways, I think the lifestyle in my previous relationship helped in other ways. I think it hurt, you know? Yeah. And I can see those things and I can draw upon that. And so I'm very careful now with things, with, when we talk about things and there's things that I felt comfortable to have my wife do that I don't feel comfortable with Didi doing, you know?

And like, and, and it's, and it's kind of a, it's kind of a mind [00:29:00] fuck, if you will, for me. And, and so I just have to think that through and understand it and kind of the whole thing and, and try to find what works for us. 'cause I think it's very individually based per couple. One thing that Didi does a lot is she'll say, Hey, I don't know.

I've never done this. I know you're more experienced what happens in a situation like this, and my answer was always like, a, a million different things can happen in this situation. I don't know. It depends on so many variables.

Fer: Can you give an example of something that she asked you?

Alex: Well, like, like we're hanging out with couples, um, that we've met on field or different things like that, and just taking it very, very slowly with them before we go out.

We like to talk about situations and so a lot of times that's when you'll ask me a question like,

Fer: yeah,

Alex: so we haven't talked about this with a couple. What happens if she starts kissing you or something like that? Or, or, or he starts kissing me, or I start like, how do we go from there and this and that?

Didi: Yeah. I think one of the questions I asked you a different time was, okay, so if you like, start playing with your partner, at [00:30:00] what time do you swap? Yeah. Or if you start by swapping, because like we were with a couple and we swapped partners just where we were making out with them. Like we didn't do anything beyond that.

It was just like. First time hanging out with him. It was fun. And I'm like, okay, but when does all this swapping happen? Like when does it go from that to this?

Alex: Well, and then to continue that. So that specific situation, which brought up some other stuff. Oh God was, I look over there and I see deedee and she's like, straddling this guy.

Like making out with him. She looks well, you

Didi: were straddle. Very happy. We were doing, we were marrying each other.

Alex: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think you, I think it started with you. I could be wrong or maybe not. Either way, I read into that, that she was super comfortable and then I started kind of, and she did too.

The girl that I was with started going to that next level ish.

Didi: Yeah. Like more touching, but

Alex: you weren't ready. Like we talked about that later. You're like, I wasn't ready for that. And I was like, oh my gosh, I totally misread that. I saw her body language and I, I read that and so yeah, learning those. 'cause like with my previous, we could do that and that was fine.

[00:31:00] And, and it was kinda reading each other. In this case, I read it wrong. Yeah. And I had to learn a whole new system with did. Of how she processes this and how it goes with her. Right?

Fer: Yeah. Or what even what her body language is, right? Yeah. Because of course, with your wife, you had been together for so long, you had probably already gone through situations where you misread and then you learn to read her body language.

So now it's like a new way of communicating different body language, different person, different reactions.

Didi: Also, alcohol was involved, which I'm kind of like, I don't really like when there's a lot of alcohol involved because people can't read the room as well, or their decision making or in inhibitions are lowered.

So like, I think that's also something that I, like, I am, I'm very kinda like lean towards like not doing, when you're first playing with people, like I've always been very, very, very aware. Of,

Fer: yeah.

Didi: Reading situations and people's like energy. [00:32:00] So for example, we we're talking to a, a newer couple now that we've hung out for a few times.

We ended up getting invited out with them because they got invited by a couple on field to go to this like fun kind of rave, uh, warehouse place, uh, here in Phoenix. It ended up being them and this other couple we had grabbed drinks with. I'm like, oh, is it by chance so and so, and they're like, uh, yeah it is.

That's so funny. You know them. Mm-hmm. So we go, but then this couple that kinda like coordinated it also had another couple from outta town and had invited this other couple. So it was like, how many couples were we?

Alex: Probably like five.

Didi: Five or six.

Alex: Five or six. Yeah. Five or six. Yeah.

Didi: And I was like, oh, I was not expecting this.

And now that was one of the questions I, I actually asked Alex, I go, how does this work? Who's like, what if everyone's in into, like, all of the guys are like into the same girl, or like, you know, I'm like, what happens there? Like, I don't know how to, because I hadn't been in a situation like that. And then because we were invited by this couple that we're like actually trying to [00:33:00] build this relationship with, and like, we haven't played with them.

And they're very much like I am where we're having conversations before anything's happening. So this other, the couple that was from Outta town were like, really into us.

Alex: Yeah.

Didi: And we're just like, really touchy. And I was like, oh, this could be fun to like, maybe make out with them on the like dance floor or something.

But then I noticed, I was like, wait, how does the couple that invited us that we're, we're like trying to spend time with, how do they feel about this?

Fer: Right.

Didi: Are the, are there thoughts about like, oh, why aren't they giving this tension? I don't know. Like, I'm like, I don't wanna mess that up. Even if they don't feel that way.

I was like. My intention isn't just to have fun in this moment with this couple that doesn't even live here. We need to go spend more time with our friends that invited us. Yeah. 'cause that's actually what our focus and like what our energy needs to go to. And he was like, oh my God. You're right.

Alex: No, I

Didi: admit

Alex: my, my, the, my, you know, I have two brains.

So the other, the one brain started thinking more than the brain on the top of my head a little bit. The lower, the lower, the lower brain [00:34:00] started thinking a little more than the top, the one below your brain. I was like, babe, these are green lights. They're hot like this. This is fun. We're having fun. And that's one of the ways where she has said she's very good at reading awareness and reading energy and that that's really what it is.

Didi: Well, and thinking has helped the one far enough, like the bigger picture. Yeah. I'm like, Hey, what we do and how we interact tonight. Does affect Lake continuing to hang out with them.

Fer: And just to recap, in case listeners got a little bit lost, lost with couple one and couple two and three, informed all their dynamics, basically you were invited by couple A.

Didi: Yeah.

Fer: And then you realized couple B, which you had already met, was going to be at that same event. Right. And then. You found couple C and then you, you had a vibe with them, but you had been invited by couple A, right? Yeah. Correct. So you didn't want to be disrespectful 'cause imagine being couple A and being like, Ooh, we invited this hot couple to come with us, and then they're like making out with their friends.

Right.

Alex: When Dee pointed out that and I was like, Nope, you're absolutely right. Our [00:35:00] long-term goal goal is to befriend and become really, to become closer with couple A if that's there. Yeah. Because we're, they're cool. They're, they think a lot, a lot. Like they're kind of wanna take it slow, they're attractive.

Like all these things is kind of hard to find, you know, because as a couple is hard to find other couples that, where you have a four way match where like there's, there's enough, everybody's, everyone's attracted to who they need to be attracted to. Right. That's very, very,

Fer: and also I imagine in your case that they're down to swap without you playing with the woman.

Didi: Right. Yeah. And those are conversations like we've started, started, started having already with them conversation because like the guy had actually reached out to us. He goes, Hey, can I call you guys today? We've got a question. He's like, I got a question. So like. His partner is a little, she is a little concerned about how this dynamic works because Didi's not bi and she's actually only had threesome experiences.

So FMF, right? Or FFM. So like she's kind of like, how does this flow? And she's. Thinking through it. And [00:36:00] so I have to explain like, well, I'm, I'm like, okay with girls, I just don't want the girl to have an expectation that I'm gonna do things that I probably just won't end up doing because it's not gonna, like, I'm not gonna go there.

Like, I'll make out with her whatever. Like I'm okay with her doing stuff to me. Like I just don't wanna disappoint. Oh,

Fer: I see. The girl. Okay. At least you're, you're, I mean, making out and being good with her doing stuff, I think you have stuff to work with, you know?

Didi: Yeah. Yeah. There's Exactly, exactly.

Alex: Yeah.

She's not like a hard, like,

Didi: don't touch me. I just don't wanna be like, okay, well I don't want her to get upset when, let's say, I don't know. She goes down on

Fer: you. You don't go down. Yeah. You don't, I don't go

Didi: down on her.

Fer: But you know what, that's, um, I don't know if you might want to reframe your saying, I'm not into girls because you being open to making out with them and them pleasuring you

Didi: Yeah.

Fer: Means that you to some level are into them. And I think it is. Common for women to not be excited about going down on other women.

Didi: Mm-hmm.

Fer: Uh, personally, I think that I wasn't truly [00:37:00] excited about it, and then I did it and I was like, oh, actually this is, this is fun. Like, it's not still, still not my, I definitely prefer doing that to a man.

Didi: Yeah.

Fer: But you know, if it's part of the phone, I'm, I'm down. You just, but any, anyhow, I also had that hesitation, so.

Didi: Mm-hmm.

Fer: It's not, you're not alone in that. So I think maybe there's a way where you can reframe it so people don't misunderstand.

Didi: My brain works in a really weird way. I go if I were blindfolded and I can see the person, uh, making out with someone's, making out with someone.

So to me, that's how I view it. So someone going down on me, which I enjoy, whether it's a guy or a girl, there, a tongue is a tongue on down there. Right. The way I try to explain it is like a girl will see me and be like sexually attracted to me. I've never felt that way about a woman. So like I try to explain it to them just to be like, Hey, I'm so good.

Like, I like pleasure, I enjoy sex. That can be with like a guy or a girl. But when I, I [00:38:00] just try to tell them, you know, and I've had girlfriends, they're like, so, like a pair of tits doesn't do it for you. And I was like, yeah, no, it doesn't. Like, so that like people will pick my brain and I'm like. So, yeah, I'm totally open and I guess that's where I like the word, maybe the whole heteroflexible term

Alex: when we just had this

Didi: conversation.

Yeah. Because it's, it's like, okay, I'm flexible with like all the kinda like, pleasure sexual acts and stuff with a woman. I don't know. And maybe in the moment, 'cause I haven't played with like another girl either, so I might actually be like way more into it and be way more turned on while doing these things.

So like I just prepare people to say like, I haven't done anything either. Like I'm very open and I'm gonna go with it.

Alex: I tend, you also tend to, and that's okay, you tend, she tend to drive very hard lines and be very like direct about it to like, and I think that's one of the reasons why, going back to couple A that we're talking about, he called us and he was like, Hey, you were very direct and clear about this.

How is that gonna work? And once [00:39:00] we talked it out and she said what she just said, he was like, oh, that's fine then. And that night where we were at that party with them or were saying that the, the rave or the thing she and the girl did end up making out. Right. And so, um, while we were the girl

Fer: from couple a, or couple

Alex: from couple A, the one that we went back that invited us.

Didi: Yeah. Just I, well I kissed the girl because, because of the conversation we had. I'm like, Ooh, I, I had told Alex in the car, I go, Hey, I'm thinking like tonight could be a good night to that maybe her and I kissed. Yeah. Because then I can show her like one, Hey, I am comfortable with things. Like, hey, it's not weird for me.

Like, I want her to feel comfortable. So her and I, we were sandwiched between the guys.

Alex: I only gotta see it for half a second 'cause I passed out. But anyway, it was great. No, I'm kidding. I'm like, yes. Oh no, sorry.

Didi: Your mind was blown.

Alex: Yeah, my mind was blown stopped. It was two minutes max. I was,

Didi: yeah.

Fer: Was it the first time you saw Diddy [00:40:00] kissing a woman?

Alex: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I loved it.

Didi: It didn't last very long.

Alex: No, it didn't last very long. But we were also a position where I, like she was calling for the guy and I was kinda up to the girl. We were kind of, yeah, we were going there like feeling that whole thing out a little bit. And he had literally a few minutes before that 'cause we decided to move to kind of a, a tighter spot on the dance floor.

And he had looked at me and he said, by the way, feel free to. Be more touchy with my girl. It really turns me on and it's a turn on for me too. And I said, yeah, same here. But I don't, I don't ever wanna like push de the situation. She's not comfortable.

Fer: Yeah, I was, I was like, shouldn't the woman be giving you permission?

I

Alex: a hundred percent. And so that's why I still was, I wasn't as told me, aggressive me as I Yeah. Maybe would've been if she, you know, uh, for me consent and knowing that the girl is into it is what I need. A hundred percent. Yeah. That, like, that's, that's what turns me on, right? Like, I don't want to ever force myself on someone or whatever.

It was like that. And so she was giving me [00:41:00] some signs, but, you know, I would say not like a hundred percent, but enough to where she was comfortable.

Didi: I will say the only reason why, like more stuff didn't happen with couple a. Because we did end up giving them the attention and it was great. We were on the dance floor, so this was only the second time we've like actually been with them.

They were rolling and we weren't. So that was like this whole other,

Fer: they were rolling for people who might not know, like they took MDMA, right, Molly? The, they were rolling. Love drug rolling.

Didi: Yeah. They were

Alex: going hard.

Didi: Hard,

Alex: yeah.

Didi: And we were not on that train. Yeah. So I was kind of like a little bit more hesitant.

Again, that awareness and I'm like. Energies need to, like for me, when your energies are matching it's,

Alex: or them to do something they don't, they weren't ready for because they were rolling. It ironically, we're, we're seeing them tonight. Yeah. Oh,

Fer: oh

Alex: my god. And we were talking about that and, and it's kind of set up to where they're like, Hey, we don't have a curfew.

We can hang out. And I'm like, well, we can head back to my place eventually if we [00:42:00] want to, or just to hang out or whatever. Like, and, and I mentioned to Deedee, well, I mentioned to her, I was like, well, we get back there. I mentioned doing a certain thing that is, would enhance the situation. And she was like, no, remember, I don't like that.

I was like, oh, that's right. We like it. It reminded me that like, so tonight I'm not gonna get drunk. I'm gonna stay sober. I want her to know that I'm in control because it's important for me that she see that I'm not making poor decisions. Right. Like that I, that I actually have,

Fer: yeah.

Alex: I have my wherewithal.

Didi: I just like, there's something really important to me about the first experiences, like sexual experiences being closer to being clear minded and present. Than not.

Fer: Yeah, it makes sense. I was thinking of extra content I could put on the Paton and I think Uhhuh, if you guys are open to it, it might be the update from what happens tonight.

Yeah, yeah. Listeners subscribe to the Paton if you want the update on whatever happens tonight.

Didi: Yes. We're like, okay, we don't have expectations, [00:43:00] but we're hopeful that like they're also new, like I mentioned, so they haven't played with other couples and so I think they're a little bit, here's the thing is I had to also remind Alex when we were at this place with all those couples, I go, you need to remember that couple A is not that experience.

Like yes, they've had experiences separately.

Alex: They're not Olympic swimmers.

Didi: What she calls me, they're not. I call 'em an Olympic swimmer and I'm like over here with my Boogie with the board.

Fer: Well, I don't know, but you were the one who remembered to go back to couple A when you were into couple C, so it sounds like you also have really good instincts.

Didi: I have great instincts. I have great. Yeah. True. I do

Alex: what, what she means by that is she's like, look, you've done it. I'm over here with the paddle board, learning how to swim, learning it, perfecting my free swat. Like, you need to go at my speed, you know? Yeah. And don't leave me behind. Don't leave you behind.

I'll round. And, and so I have to remember that, and she was reminding me that they were kind of also more along that B as well. Yeah. And because again, I don't ever want [00:44:00] to, I'm, I'm very good about, like I said, I will never push myself on, on someone, but I also am a type A and like that, those kind of situations, you

Didi: dominant

Alex: masculine, like I'm a dominant, I, I like to take charge.

Right. And so, yeah.

Didi: That's what I find attractive.

Alex: Yeah. But, but in those situations, sometimes it's better to, to not, you know, to not have that as much when it's, the time is the time. But, yeah.

Didi: Well, and I don't even bring that up so much as far as like that that concerns. 'cause I feel like you're fine with that.

Yeah. What happened was, I feel like I have to keep you in check with sometimes actually with all these couples, A, B, C, and D. Um, they all went back to couple B's house where they actually started and we were like invited to go there first. Mm-hmm. But we had an event earlier, so we had to meet them all there, but so they all took back to couple bees and I, we were invited and I was like, no, we're good.

We're good. Because I was like, I know what's gonna happen there. And I, I like, I don't have the energy to do it. Like this was already a lot. I wasn't expecting these many couples. We had like, talked through some things that [00:45:00] night.

Fer: What, what did you talk through, if you don't mind me asking?

Didi: That whole, the whole couple C thing.

I'll show you an example of Alex not being very aware of situa or like things, so I pulled him aside and I'm like, okay, so about this couple seat, like, do we make out with him? Like, I don't know. And then I was like, like, you, you're into the girl, right? And he's like, yeah, I'm into her and I'm also into this, the other girl.

And I was like. I didn't ask you about the other girl from like couple D. So I was like, what? So then I got like a little bit, um, like triggered maybe, I don't know. Mm-hmm. Because I was like, I'm not even asking that, that like, this is already a lot for me. Like, I'm trying to ask what we should do with couple C I'm already, you know, trying, I don't know.

I've never been in this. So he brings, I know Alex's

Fer: already

Alex: we're just having a conversation about everything he brings up

Didi: and I'm like, now I'm like, well shoot. So now your in mind or your brain again is like, not only thinking about couple C, you're like, cup over here. And I'm like. Can you [00:46:00] slow down

Alex: it?

I am very,

Didi: yeah. So it kind of made me like, all of a sudden I felt unsafe.

Alex: Unsafe. Yeah. You

Didi: did. Mm-hmm. And I felt unsafe. I'm like, well, I didn't realize you were thinking about couple D now too. And now like, I can only handle so much like this.

Alex: But immediately when she said that, I realized it and I pulled back and I was like, you're right.

Yeah. And I apologize. I said, I'm sorry. You're right. I'm, I'm going off of how I've done it in the past. I know it's different with you. We're learning different things with you. I'm finally just focusing

Didi: everyone's Yeah.

Alex: On this, because like,

Didi: everyone's

Alex: we're

Didi: Yeah. Like, not, not sorry for me. I'm like, everyone can't be on the table all at once.

Like, and he just sees everybody on the table all at once because that's what he is used to. And I'm like, if you do that to me, I am gonna get, I'm gonna feel unsafe. Yeah. And I'm gonna feel like I don't know how to navigate this and I'm gonna feel like left behind again.

Alex: Very good point for listeners as far as like personalities too.

Like that's how I am in life though. Like I juggle a lot. Yeah. I'm just a DDI have [00:47:00] multiple businesses. I'm just, I, I, I operate best with noise. It's just understanding how you're built too. And, and that's one of the things where we, I think

Fer: it's part, part of that, but. It's also just the fact that you've done it for so long.

A hundred percent, yes. Hundred percent is just, I wouldn't be surprised if it's been like three, five years, whatever. She's the one who's like, okay, couple A, B, C, D, and how are we doing this? And she's the one planning everything out. Right. But like for her, she's, she's like kissing, like making out with a woman in front of you for the first time.

Like everything is new. And then you're like, oh, there's this other woman. And she's, she is like, I just made out with one. Like, now you want me to, you know, like it's, it's,

Didi: yeah. It's a lot on my plate for someone who's just learning how to, like I told them, so my other analogy. I'm like, it's like introducing food to a baby.

You don't give them solid food right away.

Alex: You actually said it that night. I was like, what? Where are we going? I was

Didi: like, you give, you don't,

Alex: are we talking about Gerber baby food, babe? [00:48:00] Stop.

Fer: I'm like, we went from four hot couples to baby food.

Alex: Yeah. What's happening are, she's talking about baby, I'm a little bit fucked up and I'm be like, what?

No, I'm just kidding. Yeah. I will say this, one of the things that I love that she says all the time is like, listen, just because I'm not okay with it today doesn't mean I'm not gonna be okay with in the future. As a matter of fact, I probably will be.

Didi: Yeah.

Alex: It's just right now I need it to go in this, in this order.

Yeah. And that helps me understand and helps me from getting frustrated too, honestly. Mm-hmm. Because it is, it, it can be a little frustrating when you. Can go so much faster and someone can go slow, like right. The, the mist. Right.

Fer: When the couples, the three couples invited you to go back to couples B'S place probably Alex was like, damn it.

I really wish Yeah. Was down for that. So I, I can understand the, the, the frustration.

Didi: Well, and then I felt super validated because actually you're bringing me back to my whole point about the whole awareness thing and when I was, why I have to keep [00:49:00] him in check sometimes and like remind him about the bigger picture is couple A went back to the house and you know, he's thinking crap.

All the couples went back like we're missing out. The next morning we text couple A and we're like, so how was the after party? And they're like, it was insane. We just watched and left and I was like, told you left

Alex: shortly thereafter.

Didi: Yeah. And I was like, I freaking told you. Yeah. Like they are not. At a level that you think they are.

Yeah. Like they went, they went back, they'd been doing drugs. They didn't jump in like they could have.

Fer: Yeah,

Didi: they definitely could have. They're like, in this group, and I go, they're, they're just not there yet. Like we, so I was like, I'm very aware and I remember all these things. So I'm like, okay, we need to move through it in a way that like makes them comfortable.

And maybe I can see it more because I can relate to it more way.

Fer: Yeah. You also feel more comfortable because you're not the only one who's new to this, right? Yeah. So you can all feel like you are going at the same pace. And [00:50:00] one of the things that I always say that I got from. A book by Rachel Kranz called Open, but I think she actually learned it from the swingers world is, uh, going as fast as the slowest person, right?

That's correct. So that's what you guys are kind of doing. So Didi, you're the one that's setting the pace.

Alex: Mm-hmm.

Fer: Because obviously you are the slowest person in this, in this setting. But again, it doesn't mean that you won't get there. It is just that it's better to do it this way because if, let's say Alex had pushed you to go that night and then you had had a bad experience with so many couples and so many women that you, you have to like handle the dynamic with when you are not fully bisexual or whatever, or mm-hmm.

Maybe you have a, a negative experience because a guy does something that you don't want and you are not experienced enough to know how to handle the situation, then you'd be scared. Right. And you wouldn't want to. [00:51:00] Continue down that path. So even though it sounds counter, um, intuitive sometimes that you have to slow down to go fast, I actually think that when you slow down, you can go fast because otherwise you have bad experiences.

Yeah. And that sets you back like many steps. And I'm not sure if you guys have had any, um, difficult experiences that, that you'd like to share?

Didi: Just one, but I don't think it was like in the moment. It had more to do with, so we went to a lifestyle resort in the summer and then we met this couple there like the first day and they were like this hot couple and then we were this hot couple and

Alex: vibe.

A lot of good vibe. Vibe. A lot of good flirty and chat

Didi: vibe.

Alex: Yeah. Yeah.

Didi: So Chatted flirted during the day, and then there's like the show that you go to at this resort, you know, that the performers, the like entertainment staff that like, you know, put on all the games at the pool and all that. Then they do a show at night and so then, then the club opens up after that.

So everybody meets there at, at the one area for the [00:52:00] show over, and you have drinks and then you go up to the club and we had pretty much, I was like, okay, it's a green light with them. But in between the time we met them and the evening, I had some like conversations with Alex because I was like, again, I I, we had that bad experience.

Not bad. It was like minor, right? Where the whole make out thing. And like, he started moving faster than I was, even though he looked back and was like, you looked super comfortable. And I'm like, I've been making out with guys since I was 15. Like of course I'm super comfortable with like making out, but like, I wasn't doing more than that.

Sure. I was like on top of him straddling him, but he like read it as like, oh, she's super comfortable. I can do more. So, because that happened, I was scared of that happening again. So we had this whole conversation and I think it brought up he had fears now and he's like, oh, I'm gonna fuck up. Like I don't wanna fuck up.

And then, so when we were, we had like gone and played with them in the [00:53:00] playroom that was attached to the club. And I had even said, Hey, maybe I go in there with the guy first for like a minute or two, like come in like two minutes later, not like, don't leave me there for like half an hour. Just so that like, I'm like there first and like we're getting started.

And that actually worked out fine. But then when you guys came in, you and, and the girl came in, he got in his head because of our conversation.

Fer: Mm-hmm. Because before he had read you as being into it and he had gone a little bit further than you would've liked with the woman that he was with. And then in this setting you actually were into, but then Well, and I

Alex: knew, knew she was, but because we'd had that conversation, and this comes, comes from like my previous relationship too, when I get in the mode where like.

I need to be protective of her or something like that. If I feel like I need to be too careful, it shuts it off for me. It, it, like sex is the last thing on my mind. If I'm trying to be careful and protect [00:54:00] someone, it's just, and maybe, I don't know, being a father or whatever is like that, it's just, it literally shuts it off.

Mm-hmm. And as much as I try to turn it back on, do you know how it is guys? I'm sure like the, the more you say I gotta turn it, I gotta turn, the more pressure you put on yourself and the worse it gets. Right? So usually in those moments I just say, Hey, I'm out. Like I just, until I sleep it off, literally.

Or we just go connect back and forth and just, you know, get away from everything. And that's what we needed to do. And then we ended up having,

Fer: so you were having, you were having a hard time getting aroused because you were scared to do something wrong.

Alex: I was not turned on by her anymore. Yeah. Like the other girl, like, and she was attractive and we had great chemistry before, but at, at that moment, like the last thing I wanted to do was go have sex with her.

Fer: Right. 'cause you were like, is this pushing it too far? Is did it going to be mad if I

Alex: Yeah. And just the conver Yeah, I was worried, worried about her. Even though I knew she had said I'm good. And I believed her, like the whole conversation from before of like. You, you misread it. You pushed too hard. You liked the whole thing.

That ice [00:55:00] too bad. You were holding onto

Fer: that. Yeah.

Alex: Yeah. Yeah. It, I, it takes me a little bit to let that go.

Fer: Well, it sounds like you came back from it, because doesn't sound like you had any trouble that night with the couples to, you know, to be into it or, or wearing too afraid of fucking it up. Right. So it sounds like you guys have found a better balance, or do you feel like that's something that you're still struggling with?

Didi: I don't think we've really gotten there again to that point. Yeah, we haven't been in a room with a couple again like that since then. We did well the next day, so that couple left and left the resort the next day.

That was like their last night. We were there and like a bunch of people were like, had eyes on us and. We ended up talking to, like this couple during the day, and the girl and him had really good energy, but I didn't have good energy. Like I just didn't have, it didn't click for me with the guy. And then we weren't direct enough with them.

I was like, tell the girl you're into her, but that, like, it's just not gonna be a thing for me. [00:57:00] Yeah. So he, he let them let 'em down like a little bit nicer than that. And all the girls said was like, oh, well, my husband can be persuasive. So he ended up just trying harder later that night when we ran into them.

And I was like, no.

Fer: Yeah. Like, like, Hey, I'm into you, but my partner is not into your partner.

Didi: Yes. That, like, that might be the easiest way. That was my suggestion. I don't know. I'm new to this, but, so he did do that.

Alex: Yeah. But a

Didi: pussy fitted around there. But he but he, yeah. Yeah. He, he wasn't direct enough, so she took it as, oh, well he took it.

He just need, he took it. No, and she communicated it back to him in a way that they felt like. Oh, you just, you need to be like more flirty or more touchy, you know? Like she obviously is like, doesn't think you're into her or something like that. Like,

Fer: yeah. And I think that's a tricky part about communicating in those settings.

Right. I understand Di that you wanted Alex to be the one communicating because he had the vibe and everything, but again, it's, it was like a broken telephone situation. Yeah. So just for listeners, [00:58:00] and I mean, I'm curious how you would've handled that situation better in the future, but I would say maybe not playing the, the broken telephone game and Yeah.

And just, um, you,

Alex: that's

Fer: you telling the guy?

Alex: Yeah. Yeah. Literally that's what we concluded.

Didi: I just need to be direct.

Alex: I said if you wanna communicate that next time, then communicate it. Yeah. I support you

Didi: obviously more direct. I could have been direct, um, or taken her aside and I've been the one to say, Hey look, I think you and Alex have a really good vibe.

I'm really sorry. I'm just really not in into your husband, like, so I don't wanna waste your guys' time. We really like you guys. We want to Sure. Let's grab drinks like later, hang out, but it's not gonna be a play situation.

Fer: I mean, I know it's really hard to say those things and, and the language sometimes can be tricky to

Didi: mm-hmm.

Fer: Figure out. But even if it's just, what I always say is like, even if you don't know how to say it in the right way, even if it's, if it's just no. You know, like Yeah. Even as awkward as it might be better [00:59:00] that than mm-hmm. Let someone do something to you that you don't want them to do. Right. And even that person probably doesn't want that either.

Right. Like Alex was saying, hopefully they don't want that either. Right. Like Alex was saying, like, I never wanna impose myself Yeah. On someone. But if that someone doesn't communicate what they don't want, you might end up doing that.

Mm-hmm.

And it's also a disrespect to whoever's doing that for you not to set your boundaries, because then you put them in a situation where they're doing something that they don't wanna do, which is doing something that you don't wanna do, you know?

Didi: Yeah.

Fer: Well, thank you so much for sharing all of your experiences with. I think mostly with other couples so far. Sounds like,

Alex: well the one Teresa, so, which we'll have to get back to another time I

Fer: guess. Oh shoot.

Alex: That could

Fer: be dammit. Okay. No, we need to do a part two because we didn't talk about the Mormon 'cause

Alex: that

Fer: was great.

We didn't talk about the the, it

Alex: was great.

Fer: It was

Alex: another guy. Yeah, I'm saying it was great.

Didi: But by next, by next time too, it'll [01:00:00] probably be like, I'll have had, well maybe even have had two.

Fer: With the same with the same guy.

Didi: No new guy. Yeah.

Alex: We've got some

Fer: great. Moving on to, to better waters.

Alex: Yeah. I was in, I interviewed a new,

Didi: a new candidate.

Alex: A new candidate.

Fer: We gotta, we, we have to, we have to talk about this for sure. Yeah. Tune in. 'cause that's another topic. I barely, I barely explored it in the podcast, but I, I really want to, because I, I think that more women should be having these experiences 'cause they're so fun and, and, and I think more, more men need to get over their ego and, and sexist conditioning and all of that.

Alex: There is that involved for, for

them

Fer: too. Yeah. Yeah. So I would, I would love to hear your experience with that next time. Last question to wrap up part one, what would you tell to a poly curious person?

Alex: Talk, communicate, be vulnerable, be honest about what's okay with you, what's not okay with you and understand.

That if something's [01:01:00] not okay with your partner that you want, that doesn't mean that it's never gonna be okay. It's just it, it's gonna take some time. It does take time. Mm-hmm. There's a lot of vulnerabilities. There's a lot of fear involved, and I know Dee and I have, have, and I haven't been together forever, but like we're, I think we're good strong couple and we understand and we communicate well.

It's still hard. We still talk through things that, that we get triggered. And I, and I'll draw a hard line and then we'll talk, and I was like, and then she'll draw and I was like, no, no, no. We, like, we need to be understanding and, and reasonable with each other. And it just, it just takes time for most people, you know?

Didi: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Just be patient with it. Keep communicating. Always keep in mind that if you guys love each other, you're not, you know, you don't have bad intentions. There aren't, you know, of course there are some people doing this wrong, but that's not what you and I are here for. Right? We're here to help people do it in a way that it.

Adds to the relationships that you have and, and not, it's not like masking something and you're not running away [01:02:00] from someone or from something. Right. Just remember that you have your partner's best interest at heart. Um, when you do have those hard conversations

Alex: and boundaries are good.

Didi: And boundaries are good.

Yeah. Yeah.

Alex: They're good. They're good to have.

Didi: I think boundaries also build trust, right? I think boundaries and, um, as you see each other, respect those boundaries. It builds that foundation of trust, which is like extremely, extremely important when you're doing this.

Fer: Yeah. And you can be assertive in your boundaries.

Right. And, and not try to accommodate for what other people want or what your partner wants or what you think you should want. Mm-hmm. Uh, like you have been. Uh, with saying, you know, I don't want to go down on women, or I'm not ready to do this and I need more time and, and all of that. And I think a lot of people fall into issues because they don't feel like they should have those feelings so they don't bring them up.

Didi: Mm-hmm.

Fer: And then they don't create those boundaries. Right. So, thank you so much for sharing. This was amazing. [01:03:00] It was great having you and cannot wait to hear about the, uh, experience tonight.