Fernanda: Hi everyone, I am Fer. Welcome to Polycurious and today I bring you a bonus episode where I will be sharing all of the lessons that I have learned in this journey. As you might or might not know, the name Polycurious comes from the fact that I was polycurious myself. And in a way I am still polycurious because even though I am non-monogamous and have been for a few years now, I haven't really experienced polyamory, which is having more than one attachment based relationship or one significant romantic relationship or someone that I would call my partner outside of my primary. And I am still a little bit curious about it, but not necessarily wanting it. And I'll talk a little bit more about the reasons why. But since I started my journey as a polycurious person, before I leave you, I wanted to make sure that you had a go to place with all of the lessons that I have learned in this journey. And you might be wondering why this bonus episode now?

So I want to announce that I am wrapping up Polycurious in the next few weeks. So there'll be three more episodes and then I will be closing the podcast indefinitely. Obviously I have loved doing this. It's really been so fulfilling and it's made me connect with so many people and help so many people. But as you might know, I am now doing relationship coaching and that's taking up more of my time. So I am transitioning into focusing more on that so I can help people in a more direct way. So if you think that you might need some help in your relationship or relationships, whether you are non-monogamous or not, feel free to reach out to me at my Instagram Polycurious podcast or my email, polycuriouspodcast@gmail.com this doesn't mean that you won't hear from me anymore. I will continue to do Instagram lives. I will be uploading them to our YouTube channel. You can follow that by going to the link in the show notes.

And who knows, maybe in a few months or in a few years I might pick up this again. And in the meantime, if you have not listened to the already almost 40 polycurious episodes that are out there, go and do that. Also, if you have not subscribed to the podcast now, it's a great moment in case I do release another episode and you want to stay in the loop. And also if you have learned from this podcast and want to support us, not only I would love for you to subscribe, but also to give us a rating and or review.

Okay, now let me tell you a little bit more about today's episode. So if you are a fan of the podcast, you have probably heard bits and pieces of my lessons, but I wanted something more accessible to you so you could directly learn from my experience and hopefully save yourself some of the hurdles that I went through. Of course, I will just be speaking from my personal experience. None of the things that I will be saying today are universally true. Perhaps there are some things that you resonate with, and perhaps there are some things that you don't. So while you listen, make sure that you really tune in with yourself and check whether that might be true for you or not. I would love to hear what you guys think about this episode. Write to me if you have any more questions. I'm always happy to answer them.

Okay, guys, without further ado, here is my solo episode with myself.

Okay, before we go into the main lessons that I have learned in my journey, I wanted to first let you know the reasons why I'm open and what my relationship structure is at the moment. So my partner Seth has been monogamous for the whole duration of our relationship, even though we opened up in some way earlier on. And if you're curious about why he chooses to be non-monogamous, you can go and listen to our episode that's episode 12. It's a really good one, especially if you are in a mono-poly relationship. But in general, Seth is such a wise, beautiful human. I'm sure you would learn so much from that episode. He's not close to the idea. He's just more of an introvert and doesn't feel like he wants to spend that energy on dating at this very moment. But women out there don't get too discouraged. He's open to it. He's just not in a point in his life where he wants to put a lot of effort in that aspect. But if you are the right person, you might just have to be a little forward with him. Like perhaps I was when I met him. But anyhow, let me tell you why

I decide to be open, even though Seth is not. One of the main reasons is because I like my relationships to take whatever shape or form they need to take organically and naturally. I remember when I had a boyfriend and I was monogamous and I'd be having a conversation with a man who I noticed might be interested in me. I would perhaps take some distance or cut off the conversation a little bit because I did not want to be unfaithful to my partner. And it felt like a shame because even if I was not interested in something more intimate, just the fact that I had a partner created a barrier that didn't allow for such a deep connection. So I love that I can just meet someone and have a conversation that allows for intimacy because there's not that fear of: "Oh, are we doing something wrong just because I am partnered." Another reason why I love being open is because it allows me to see a part of myself that I don't normally get to express with Seth.

We talked about this in a recent episode with Jessica Esfandiary from the podcast Open Late, which I will definitely link in the show notes as well. And she talked about how it's not like she's hiding parts of herself with her partner, but because other people are different, when she goes out with other people, she experiences a different version of herself. And I resonated so much with what she said. I mean, this might be a little cliché when talking about non-monogamy, but being with other people allows me to do things that I don't get to do with Seth. And that actually includes my sexuality as well. Jessica Fern, the author of Polysecure, great book that I will also link in the show notes, talks about how a lot of non-monogamous people shy away from talking about sex as the reason why they are open, but that it's a completely valid reason in my case. I do have a great sexual relationship with my partner. It just keeps getting better with time, which is amazing even though we're coming up to five years together. But we do have some differences in the types of sex that we like. I like to have different kinds of sex and I'm a little bit more kinky and I probably have a higher libido than he does. And having other partners allows me to have sex that is more experimental and to fulfill my sexual desire in a way that if I was only with one person, I would probably not get to do. And actually having sex with other people improves my sexual relationship with Seth. This was one of the surprising things about non- monogamy for me. As if desire was a finite thing and if I put my desire elsewhere it wouldn't manifest in my relationship. And I realized earlier on that to the contrary, when I'm having sex with other people I feel more sexy and therefore I come back to my relationship kind of wanting to spice things up a little bit with my partner as well, and being open not only improves our sex life, it has also improved our communication skills and how honest we are with one another. Because, of course, you have to talk about very deep topics. You have to be very honest and say things that you might not normally say. So you do get closer in that way. And honestly, dating other people also helps me see my relationship with different eyes. Whenever I'm dating someone new, it kind of reminds me what it is like to date someone for the first time and how you might put more effort because you care a little bit more about what they think. It's easy to get perhaps a little bit too comfortable with your partner and not make that extra effort. And when I'm dating other people, it kind of reminds me to put that extra effort with my partner as well. And also, honestly, when I'm dating other people, I appreciate my partner a lot more because perhaps they don't do certain things that my partner does. And of course, they might do other things that are positive that my partner doesn't do. But it's always kind of like a good point of reference that reminds me what's special about my partner and why I'm with my partner. And, honestly, being with other people has always made me feel like I love Seth more. Although at the beginning, I felt a little bit conflicted with my feelings for other people. But we'll get to that as we move into the main lessons in my journey.

Okay, so lesson number one. Be patient.Rachel Krantz, another guest in the podcast. Again, I will link that episode in the show notes if you are interested in listening to it. Wrote a book called “Open: An Uncensored Memoir of Love, Liberation, and Non-Monogamy”. And I remember in her book, she talked about the lesson she learned, which is go as fast as the slowest person in my situation. I knew that I wanted to be open from the very beginning of my relationship with Seth. We met at Burning Man almost five years ago, and second day we met, I told him: "Hey, I want to be in an open relationship."

And when Seth talks about this, he says that he just realized that I was a very authentic person and he felt open to trying it, even though it was not his preference. And he did not want to be open, but he was receptive to me being open and really made an effort to make that work. However, it was not immediately possible for me to be open in the way that I wanted. What we determined would be the halfway compromise would be if I went to play parties at the time, once a month, we were doing long distance, and that's what felt less threatening to Seth. So I would do that. I would go to, a play party once a month. This was, I don't know, for like a few months before he moved here. But I was a little bit frustrated because I just wanted to continue seeing the friends with benefits that I was already seeing before I started seeing Seth. I actually remember he asked me if I wanted to be his girlfriend in one of my trips out to San Francisco. And I immediately said yes because I was in love with him and really wanting to build on that relationship. And, soon after I was like: "Does this mean that I cannot have sex with my friends anymore?" And he basically said yes.

I don't remember exactly how we talked about it, but I was a little bit like, fuck. But you know, like, you sometimes have to do compromises for your partnership. And he from the beginning, told me, I want to give you what you want, but I can't give it to you right now because it feels like a lot. Let's go on stages. Let's move slow and stay in one stage before moving on to the next one. So the first stage was the play parties. I soon realized that's not what I wanted. I don't love play parties. Every once in a while they can be fun, but that's not really why I want to be non-monogamous. I much prefer the one on one connection.

He was also okay with me being open when I would go to festivals on my own. And I remember the first festival I went to on my own where he was like: "Oh, you can do whatever you want." That was 2020, right before the pandemic. And I was just elated. I was so happy to be free. And, you know, whenever I had a taste of those moments, I really felt like I wanted more of that. And at points I felt frustrated that, you know, back in the real world, I couldn't have it. Then the pandemic hit. So, of course, we took a pause on the non-monogamous exploration.

So it wasn't until after two and a half years or so of us being together that, you know, we talked about it. And finally he was like: "Okay, you can go and have a date with someone." And I remember the first time I did that. I, went to my friend's place and we made pizza and we had sex and it was just amazing. That's all I wanted. Just casual, casual dating. All of this to say that if you are in a relationship where you want to open up maybe faster than your partner, is comfortable with. Don't push it. Really help your partner feel like you guys are a team. Like you guys have time. Like you are committed to this relationship and you are giving up some of the things you want in order to make them feel comfortable. Knowing that things will change with time. But just take it one step at a time. And the steps need to be tiny because I know that if we had just jumped straight into dating in the way that I wanted, set would have probably felt threatened, and it would have just been counterproductive.

And I'm so glad that we took the safest road to being open because it's been such a smooth journey for us. Well, not super smooth at first.

Which brings me to lesson number two, which is find the right time to bring things up. So when we first opened up, Seth felt a little triggered even when I just asked if I could see someone. And for some reason, I thought that the best time to do that would be when we were going on a date. And I guess that's because we didn't always have the opportunity to just be sitting, chatting one on one. But he wasn't very happy with that because he felt like me asking to go out on a date with someone was kind of contaminating our time together. So he would ask me to do it in a different moment, but it was really hard for me to find the right moment. It just felt like it was never the right moment. What I learned with time is that the right moment for me personally, and it might be the right moment for you as well, is after I have had that date with Seth or I have had some connected time together. So he doesn't feel like me asking to go out with someone is compromising on our time together and our connection together for us, because we do have that primary structure. My relationship with him goes first, and it's important that he feels that before I ask if I can go and see someone else again. Things have changed a lot since we started this journey. Now he doesn't feel triggered when I ask if I can go out with someone else. So I don't need to be as careful about when to ask. But I still try to do it, if possible, after we've had a date and we've had connected time together. So he knows that I'm prioritizing us before someone else. I would also recommend, and I recommend this to all of my clients, to set up a bi weekly or weekly or monthly meeting where you have a chance to have a chat about your relationship. And that might be a good opportunity to bring up the ask as well. I think having these check ins are so important because you have time to think about how you want to say things.

You come ready to receive criticism so you're not going to react as strongly. So I highly, highly recommend that if you don't have a check in already to put one in place.

Okay, lesson number three, check with your partner before making plans with other people. Because as I mentioned, I was waiting for the right time to ask Seth and I knew that he most likely was going to say yes. There were a couple of times that I made plans with someone before checking in with Seth. And then when I checked in with Seth, he said maybe not this week next or something along those lines. And then I had to cancel my plans with those people. And that wasn't great, first of all, because it made other people think that maybe Seth wasn't fully okay with me seeing them, even though that wasn't the case. And also it was disappointing for me and the other person.

So now before making solid plans, I always say, sure, let's meet this Saturday, but let me first check with Seth so the other person knows that it's not confirmed and that they need the approval from Seth. It also reminds the other person that I'm in a relationship and that that's my priority. So that's what works for us.

Okay, lesson number four is feeling guilt is normal. So obviously I rationally know that non- monogamy is fine. I, I rationally know that it was okay for me to ask to go out on a date but because it was all new and it felt weird and we are brought up in this society that tells us that we're doing something wrong if we want to see other people. I could just feel guilty about even asking to go out on a date. That feeling goes away with time. But if you're experiencing it, just be with it and remind yourself that as long as you're communicating clearly, you're not doing anything wrong.

This relates to my next point, which is don't sugarcoat. Because I felt guilty about asking to go out on a date. I could say things like: "Oh, this person invited me out", or "Oh, this person wants to see me again." Even in cases where I was the one making the plans. Instead of being honest and say: "Hey, I want to see this person, I'm interested in this person, can I go see them?" Luckily, Seth knows me very well and I'm a terrible liar. He could see right through it. So even in a recent conversation we had about someone that I'm seeing. He was like, please just be honest. Don't sugarcoat it for me. Which I always try to do. But it's sometimes hard not to.

Again, fall into the mentality that wanting to see someone or having feelings for someone else might mean that there's something wrong with your relationship.

Lesson number six is determine how much you want to share with your partner. I think that's so important, and that's something that we often miss when we're opening up. So in our case, Seth was really straight from the beginning and told me: "Listen, I do not want to know about your date. I do not want to know about the people that you are dating." Of course I was telling him if I was gonna go on a date, but when I come back from a date, it'd be as if nothing had happened. And it's still a little bit like that nowadays. Things have changed a lot. He's a lot more comfortable with me sharing a lot of things, but that was his preference, and it was a little hard for me to accept that Don't Ask, Don't Tell dynamic because I would come back from a date excited and wanting to share and wanting to connect with him. And he actually felt a little weird that I would come back in such a mood. So he asked me to take my space when I came back from a date because he was feeling a little bit resentful and he didn't want to put those feelings on me. So I feel like a lot of people don't have the maturity to accept that they don't want to know. And they feel like they need to push themselves to hear what their partner has done on a date to overcome their insecurities. And I'm here to tell you, you do not have to.

If you don't feel great hearing what your partner is doing in a date, you can totally say, I would rather not know. And, um, it does not mean that there's anything wrong if you have a Don't Ask, Don't Tell dynamic that's pre established. You are just respecting each other's boundaries. I would say if you're in a situation similar to mine where you are excited about the person you're seeing and you want to share, go and share with a friend. go and share with your community. Go and share with me. Write to me. Even if you want to tell me about the awesome date you had. We grow up thinking that our partner has to know everything and be everything for us, and that's not true. So make sure that you have someone that you can unload all of those feelings and reflections with.

Okay, lesson number seven is meeting the people that your partner is seeing can help with jealousy. I've talked about this a lot, and again, I can't speak from experience because my partner has not seen anyone so far. But I know it from his experience as well. He at first thought that he didn't want me to be with people that he knew. He wanted to be as removed as possible from my open lifestyle. But then we were in a situation in which I felt an attraction for someone that was our friend and that he knew and that he had spent time with. And all of a sudden, when I told him about it, it didn't seem as threatening as he thought it would be. And he realized that, indeed, knowing the person help with jealousy. So we were able to flex that boundary, and I was able to date that person for a little bit. So if you're hesitant about meeting the people that your partner is seeing or about introducing the people you are seeing to your partner, I would say go for it. Related to this point is my next one, which is that jealousy and insecurities are very likely to decrease over time. So I was actually having a conversation with Seth last night because I wanted to make sure that I included what he has learned in this journey as well. And he talked about how it was good for us to put himself into situations where it might hurt a little bit, just to get used to it. So in the past, whenever I went on a date, he did feel jealousy. He did feel weird about it, but he just had to get used to that.

So after a few months of me going out on dates and dating and him feeling a little bit jealous or insecure when I did that, it all of a sudden became normal. And now a couple of years later, he doesn't feel any jealousy or insecurity. So if you are in a situation where you have those feelings, just know that you just have to get used to it. That, again, part of the reason you feel that way is because it's something new. It's something that you've never experienced, and it's not what were taught to do.

Okay, lesson number nine. We're getting into the juicy part. So this is probably the biggest lesson that I have learned in my journey. You cannot control your feelings for other people. I hear some couples who have this boundary of only sexual relationships, not romantic relationships. And it's true that there are things that you can do to keep it as sexual as possible or the least romantic possible. For example, in the second episode of the podcast, which I will also link in the show notes, we talked to Dr. Zhana about some things you can do. For example, if you're staying over, don't stay for breakfast or limit communication with people throughout the week, or just let them know that that's a boundary that you have with your partner. So they also don't catch feelings and they also don't act as romantic.

You can do those things, but that doesn't take away the fact that if you are having sex with them, you might catch feelings for them. And that's not something that you can control. So if you are going on this journey, I think that to a certain degree, you have to accept that risk. In my situation, when I started seeing other people, especially at the beginning, I would catch these feelings for them and I would be so overwhelmed by them. I knew Seth was a lot more comfortable with the sexual aspect of the relationships and didn't really want me to be involved in romantic partnerships. And again, because I have a Don't Ask Don't Tell dynamic with my partner, I couldn't share these feelings with him. So I felt so guilty. And I wasn't really sure how to handle what I was experiencing. And the first time I had feelings with someone outside of my partnership, I didn't say anything. This was at a festival. And that relationship didn't really go anywhere because he ended up dating someone else monogamously. So, you know, I just let that pass. It was a little hurtful. And I couldn't share either my feelings of infatuation or my feelings of hurt with Seth, which made me feel, in a way, separated from him. And it was really difficult.

The second time I started experiencing feelings for someone else, this was someone that I was seeing more regularly. I felt like I couldn't hold it anymore. And I decided to have a conversation with Seth and I basically told him: "Hey, babe, this is not the first time that I have feelings for someone else. I'm not saying I'm in love with this person, but I feel like it could happen either with him or with someone else. And I just wanted you to know that." And this is probably the hardest conversation we've had in our non-monogamous journey. And to this day I wonder if perhaps I was just trying to relive some of my guilt for seeing other people. And I could have just not said anything. But I did feel a huge relief after we had that conversation. But of course, it was really hard for Seth to hear that I might be falling in love with someone else. So I could see his sadness. We didn't really reach a conclusion at that point. And again, things with this other person faded away.

And part of the reason why I am not so sure that conversation was needed leads me to the next point, which is feeling New Relationship Energy or infatuation is normal, and it might go away quicker than you think. So in my case, this has happened with almost everyone I've dated. I've dated maybe four or five people in the last four or five years. Almost every single time after the fourth date or fifth date or sixth date, the infatuation fades away. I talk about this in my episode with Mariah, which I will link in the show notes. At that point, I think it was probably about a year ago, we were giving you guys an update on our relationships, and I was talking about someone I was seeing that I was really excited about. But I also talk about my fourth date rule, which is, even though I might get excited the first date and the second date and the third date, I don't take myself too seriously because I know that it might just be the hormones bubbling up and the feelings might just go away and the relationship might not work. So I made this rule with myself. And whenever I'm in a new relationship with someone, I let those feelings come in. But I don't attach so much value to it because at first I was feeling guilty because even though I wasn't doing anything wrong, we live in this society that tells us that if you have feelings for other people, that means that there's something wrong with your relationship. So even though my relationship with Seth was fine, we were doing great. I was in love with him. Whenever I had feelings for other people, I would start having these doubts, like: "Does this mean that I'm going to break up with Seth?" or "What if I want to see this person more than Seth is comfortable with?" And I would really just get ahead of myself. And I had to learn that those feelings might be fleeting, they might not, they might say, but I can't attach so much value to them, and I need to be present instead of projecting to the future.

So that was a huge, huge lesson for me. And most often than not, those feelings do go away or relationships end. Like the latest person that I dated, I was super excited about him. And we did go past the fourth date, but then I just realized that we weren't a great match. So even in situations where those feelings might not fade as quickly, their relationship might end. So really try to be present and know that what you're feeling is normal and that that doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with your primary relationship or that your primary relationship is going to come to an end.

Okay, lesson number 11. We're getting to the latest part of my journey and this has also been very, very big for me. Be careful where you put your energy. As I mentioned at the beginning of this episode, there are so many reasons why I'm open. And honestly, I love dating, I love meeting new people, I love having new experiences. But after having so many flings with people that didn't really go anywhere, it has really made me reflect on where I want to put my energy. If I go out with someone and it turns out I don't really like them, I do see it a little bit like a waste of time. And if I do like them, I might be spending energy, even when we're not together, thinking about them and texting them and making plans to see them, etc. And that's all energy that I might be able to spend on my projects or on my friends or on my primary relationship or on my creativity.

For example, I took a six month break from dating just recently because I wanted to focus my energy on Polycurious and on my day job and on my training to become a relationship coach. So really be intentional about what you do with your energy. I love dating. I love seeing other parts of myself. But now I'm a lot more careful with whether I go and pursue a, connection. There was a time I was on the dating app field. There was a time where I would go out with whoever asked me out and I was attracted to. And now I'm a lot more careful and a lot more conscious about what I do because I know that even seemingly innocent interactions can spiral into a significant investment of my energy.

And that leads me to the last lesson, which is non-sexual intimacy. This I actually learned not from my non-monogamous journey or from Polycurious cast but from a monocurious guest. If you haven't listened to that miniseries I created with my friend Ava, make sure to go and do so. We interviewed people in monogamous relationships who are living somewhat unconventionally and have made a conscious choice to be monogamous as opposed to most people who just default to that without really thinking about it. And in our last episode of that series, which I will link in the show notes, Tory tells us how because of a combination of her religious background and seeing her friends being in unhealthy relationships. She never wanted to commit to a romantic partnership growing up. So she developed what she calls non-sexual intimacy, which is basically having intimate friends without crossing that line. And listening to her really helped me in this journey because as I just mentioned, I'm being a lot more conscious about where I put my energy and it just opened up to me the possibility that I don't need to be sexual with new connections that I have. And in that way I can get some of the parts that I love about non monogamy, like expressing other sides of myself, etc. Without that significant energy and time commitment. Because when you don't have sex with people, to be honest, things are a lot easier.

And you know what, sometimes they might even be better. So I've been really trying to practice that and making connections and putting friendship first. Even though I might feel attracted to some of my friends and even though I could be sexual with them, I'm choosing not to. So that's it. That's everything I have learned so far. I hope that this was helpful to you and you might be wondering, where am I right now in my polycurious journey. So from the experiences that I just shared, I've concluded I'm probably not polyamorous, at least at this point. I would consider myself open and it wouldn't necessarily be my preference to have two attachment based relationships or two partners because again, it's a lot of energy investment. However, because I know that one cannot control one's feelings and I do think that I will be open probably for the rest of my life, even if I'm not actively dating all the time, I know that it's bound to happen that I might find someone that I connect very deeply with and that I want to spend more time with. But unlike before, I'm not really afraid of it anymore. Luckily, I am in a partnership where everything is a conversation and if that were to happen, I'm not saying it would be easy, but who knows, it might be. If there's something that I've learned in this journey is that ah, nothing is set in stone and things change all the time.

So my advice to you would be to be present wherever you are at ah in your journey right now and don't get ahead of yourself. Just take it step by step, being careful, communicating, listening to yourself, listening to your partner. Before I leave you, I have a little ask for you outside, of course, subscribing to the podcast and sharing it with a friend. Especially if today's episode resonated with them. I would like to ask you to be more open about your journey in making this podcast. I've had listeners writing to me, but I've also had people close to me telling me that they learned a lot about other people that they know in the community and it really got them to know their friends better. And it was a little bit surprising to me that even though we are all part of this community, which is not necessarily the non-monogamous community, but just I guess the open minded Burning Man community, people don't really talk about these things. So my ask for you is to open up that conversation not only with people within your community, if you have a community that's open to this, but even with people that might be unfamiliar with this concept but could be receptive to it. Because the more we have these conversations, the more we normalize it and um, the more we open up people to the idea. Again, I'm not an advocate of non-monogamy. I'm an advocate of relationship by design. And it's important for people to know that this is a choice and it's important for people who are already practicing it to feel like it's normalized. I know that a lot of people are not in a position to do this. They might be afraid of losing their job or their community. So I totally understand if you can do that. But if you can, maybe just start by being honest. You don't have to tell everyone everything. If they are curious, they will ask you more. And if they are not and they are close minded, they might not. But just not lying, being honest, not hiding away or shying from this makes a huge difference.

Okay guys, that's all for me today. It's actually 4:30am in the morning. I

had to wake up in the middle of the night because I live next to a really loud subway train which is running all day long. So it's time for me to go back to bed. But it was a pleasure to be able to leave you guys with all of the lessons in this little episode. So if you resonated with it, if you thought about your partner, if you thought about a friend, please make sure to share it.

And again, I would love it if you subscribe to the podcast to support our mission. And if you are interested in my relationship coaching services, you can write to me at Polycurious Podcast on instagram or at polycuriouspodcast@gmail.com

I love you guys. There's three more episodes in the season. You will be hearing from Mariah, in the last one, in case you're wondering where she's been. And again, feel free to reach out to let me know what you thought about this episode. Thank you so much, guys.